‘The Real Deal’ on women in Saudi

MSNBC ^ | 6-19-03 | Joe Scarborough

[JustPiper]

Held in Saudi Arabia against their will

COMMENTARY by Joe Scarborough

June 19 — American women and children continue to be held in Saudi Arabia against their will. The cream puffs at the State Department can call it what they want… but if it were our children trapped in a foreign land, we’d call it kidnapping.

WOMEN HAVE FEW rights in Saudi Arabia. Like the Taliban, our so-called Saudi allies prohibit women from leaving the country without their father and husband’s approval. Thirteen years ago, an American woman actually got kicked out of the U.S. embassy for having the nerve to escape there with her children. It seems the children’s father regularly beat the woman and children. Reports of other American women and children trapped in Saudi Arabia continue surfacing at an alarming rate — despite Prince Bandar’s September promise that no American women and children would be held in his kingdom against their will.

Well, today’s news made the Prince out to be a liar.

Watch Joe Scarborough on “Scarborough Country,” 10 p.m. ET, weeknights on MSNBC TV.

23-year-old Sarah Saga and her two children escaped to the U.S. embassy to get away from another abusive Saudi relationship. Miss Saga’s story is typically tragic: Her Saudi father kidnapped Ms. Saga when she was 6 years old and refused to return her to her American mother. Saga grew up and was forced to marry a Saudi man; she had two children, and then found herself trapped in an abusive relationship. Last month she tried to take her children home to America, but once again, the Saudis refused and offered Ms. Saga a Sophie’s Choice: your freedom or your children. Already facing death threats, Ms. Saga chose to escape Saudi soil and finally come home to American soil.

But the question remains. Why does our administration and Congress continue allowing the Saudis to kidnap our women and imprison our children? If Iran were to do such a thing, we would quickly declare war. It begs the question, is the pursuit of cheap oil really worth selling our nation’s soul? I think not.

And that, my friend, is the ‘Real Deal.’

[Mamzelle]

American men ought to pay attention, as well. A Muslim man may marry a "kafir" woman if he pleases, but a Muslim woman cannot marry an infidel man without causing her family disgrace. And disgrace can be dangerous when dealing with Islamics.

Not that there are many Muslim girls at the colleges, but there are a few.

And if any foreign girl has an influential family, they can make life miserable for an American bridegroom.

There was an interesting movie a couple years back about this American man who sent off for his Russian bride ('cause American women are so *difficult*), only to end up with her Ruso-Mafia family to deal with...

Make sense--those who seek shortcuts are likely to end up on a dead end.

[Mamzelle]

I suggest you take a hard look at Pat Roush and the life she has led before you take her part against the Bushes. She was pretty quiet during the Clinton years, and the girls were MIA then, too. Only during the two Bush admins has she made a lot of noise. A Berkeleyite with a long history of "marital masochism" with her Saudi husband--she thinks that Bush won't help her because of his "family oil."

I make a point of reminding people of this--National Review Online, for some reason, has made a pet of this nutcase.

[A_perfect_lady]

That's true. I tend to think that an American man marrying a foreign woman is probably "saving" her from a dismal fate, and I applaud them. But you are right, you can't just pick up a person like a stray cat and take them home... 'specially if kittie comes from some freaky family who'll stalk you anywhere you go. I've heard a couple of scary stories about American men marrying Saudi girls whose brothers then devote their lives to hunting them down and killing them.

Geez... we Americans are just too dang nice!! I wish some Saudi jerk would marry one of our Lorena Bobbits, just once.

[Mamzelle]

re: That's true. I tend to think that an American man marrying a foreign woman is probably "saving" her from a dismal fate, and I applaud them. )))

Afraid I don't. I take a dim view of guys picking up strays, since their real motive is likely to keep the relationship "unilateral." I see some of these now and then. That way he thinks he'll get to call all the shots--or back to the pound with her!

I see this right now with a rich guy I know who "rescued" a woman and her daughter. Now he doesn't have to marry anyone, gets to play daddy as well as sugar daddy. He thinks he's *such* a hero...

People have all kinds of reasons when they're not dealing with equals from similar backgrounds, which I believe is the most reliable way of forming a lasting marriage.

[snopercod]

We must send Madelein Albright over to Saudi right away to see about this.

[Courier]

I want them flown to the US on the same private jet the Saudis used to fly Bin Ladin's family out of the US after 9/11. Today.

[Courier]

This woman didn't commit a crime. She followed her heart even if it was to us a foolish decision.

Maybe we would sympathize but be powerless of her situation.

But, that all changed when she managed to get into the American Embassy. She touched home. She was free.

An American Embassy should, for any innocent American, be a beacon of freedom anywhere in the World.

Sadly it's not.

[kitkat]

***Only during the two Bush admins has she made a lot of noise.***

AT LAST! Some good sense.

Whenever I hear that it's all so that Bush can get cheap oil, my BS meter hits the zenith.

Has anybody considered that this is a plot to hurt America? We have nothing but the undocumented word of strangers.

FLAME AWAY! You're playing into the hands of the commie liberals who are DESPERATE to harm the conservatives.

We Americans have VERY soft hearts which the Communists use to trap us. When they take over, they will DESTROY us!

[Mamzelle]

I taught Saudi princelings many years ago, when I was a sweet young thing. They have an awful way of looking at you (women)--sort of a nasty/hateful rather than an appreciative/wholesome leer. Anytime you can't figure out whether a middle-easterner is from the Islamic states or from India--just pay attention to how he looks at women. You'll figure it out in a flash. Shudder.

Anyway, there were a fair number of fair-haired girls who were quite charmed with these young men, who carried with them both the exoticism of the desert and the hopes of big oil money.

I think that Pat Roush, when she criticizes the Bush oil connections, may well be "projecting" her own disappointed desires for an alliance with rich oil.

[AlexW]

Can she not leave, or is it that she can not take the kids with her?
I really do feel somewhat sorry for her, but to a limit.

"A_perfect_lady" says that she was forced to marry the creep.
Do we know that to be fact?
Are the kids a product of rape?

If I go off to another country, I do so with the knowledge that I have to live by THEIR laws and customs, not that of the US.
If she was kidnaped or forced, then that's another matter.

"She followed her heart even if it was to us a foolish decision."

This happens probably thousands of times, and every day, in the US.

I am still trying to understand why this is not a common custody dispute.

[WarEagle]

They have an awful way of looking at you (women)--sort of a nasty/hateful rather than an appreciative/wholesome leer.

Yeah, it is very disconcerting.

Several years back, I was at a computer conference (now defunct) called Guide, for IBM mainframe stuff. Having breakfast one morning in a crowded coffee shop, the only open seat happened to be next to me. It was taken by a ME man, who turned out to be an IT guy for the Saudi Air Force. I tried to make conversation with him as I had recognized him from several sessions earlier in the week, and he acted like I had a communicable disease. He looked at me as though I were a pile of camel dung.

I have known several women who married Muslims, and their experiences have uniformly been disastrous. Beatings, financial disputes, child-rearing conflict, and general misery constituted the best of them. The rest were worse.

Combine this with my experience with an Iranian instructor in college who was loathe to even pass women, much less give me my A, I never, never, never have been attracted to any man who wasn't USA to the bone. I commend that attitude to every American woman.

[etcetera]

" A Berkeleyite with a long history of "marital masochism" with her Saudi husband..."

Thanks for the insight!

[CyberAnt]

A better question is: WHY ARE WOMEN SO IGNORANT ON THIS ISSUE ...?? Why do they end up marrying these FORIGNERS - men who do not believe in GOD, men who believe women are CHATTEL ...?? Why would a woman ever want to marry such a man ...??

I blame the MOTHER OF SARAH. She married the idiot to begin with - lost her daughter and subjected her own child to terrible treatment. What a legacy - allowing your own child to be a dormat for another person.

[Humidston]

Americans should be taught from day one - DO NOT date, meet, associate with foreigners in any way that could lead to romance!

Back in the '50's a Muslim guy asked my parents if he could date me and the answer was a resounding NO! They then sat me down and explained why it was out of the question. That's all it took to convince me - that guy was Off Limits.

[JustPiper]

could you two be any more callous and petty? Good grief.

Bump!

[JustPiper]

Starting a Saudi ping then ;)

[JustPiper]

We are not the kind of country which declares war just because our women are kidnapped and children imprisoned. Unfortunately, I think.

This is true and your right it is unforunate and it is about time we act!

[JustPiper]

Alex,

We do not know the people we marry. Longtime loves turn into strangers. And she married a Swede Alex, not a 'raghead'.

[JustPiper]

All Americans should ask him the same question

Yes we should and I will and thanks for porviding the link and making it easy for us all ETC.!

[JustPiper]

As far as Pat goes, I was bothered her daughters are now adults and she was slumping for PR?