‘The Real Deal’ on women in Saudi

MSNBC ^ | 6-19-03 | Joe Scarborough

[SendShaqtoIraq]

Her children are already US citizens as they were born to a US citizen.

[af_vet_rr]

Just keep telling yourself the Saudis are our friends. The President and government tells us this, there weren't a dozen Saudis among the 9/11 terrorists, they aren't funding the palestinians.

Ah, screw it. The Saudis are more dangerous to us over the long haul than Iraq or Afghanistan or Iran.

[hocndoc]

Don't blame the victim.
As in most abusive situations, any way a woman and her (female) children survive will seem impossible and fantastic to the rest of us.

I would have expected this administration to be more helpful than the last, too. It would be frustrating to be denied help where it's most expected, wouldn't you think?

I'm not sure that in practical terms it matters who is in the White House. I get the impression that State Department is a sovreignty on its own - or at least the bureaucrats may act as thought they are.

[Ready4Freddy]

There are numerous women & children w/ US citizenship (unlike Sarah's kids) in SA that can't get out of the country. US citizenship isn't really the issue here, since SA considers them SA citizens, and will only support the Saudi fathers' rights.

[He Rides A White Horse]

...honestly, I think any woman marrying a Muslim and then returning to the 'homeland' needs her head examined.

[hocndoc]

Why would anyone try to make Ms. Roush out as the one who is in the wrong, here? She is obviously the victim, as her daughters, Ms. Saga and her children.

NRO doesn't sound critical about Ms. Roush from this article.


http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock072502.asp
Or this one from July 2002
http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher071602.asp
"" Roush has been trying ever since to get her children back, with virtually no help from the State Department, which, in theory, is supposed to work for Americans. In fact, State has an appalling record of appeasing the Saudis in these matters, a fact that has been pointed out with prophetic outrage most recently by the Wall Street Journal editorial page and its editorialist, William McGurn.""
and
"" Let Congress recognize this for what it is: a hostage situation, perpetuated by the Saudi rulers, and abetted for 16 years by appeasing American diplomats. ""
and
""Congress should order State to deny visas to any Saudi government official until and unless Aisha and Alia al-Gheshayan, and indeed all American citizens held illegally in Saudi Arabia, are allowed to return home.""
and
"" Americans should realize, though, that their own government is a great obstacle to a just resolution to these cases. As Ali al-Ahmed, the Saudi democracy activist who runs the Virginia-based Saudi Institute, tells NRO, "I'm amazed by the way the State Department has behaved in the Roush case, and several other cases. Is it the U.S. State Department, or the Saudi State Department?"""


or this one,
http://www.nationalreview.com/mowbray/mowbray022403.asp

"" he head of the State Department's Bureau of Consular Affairs (CA), Maura Harty, is hosting an event at the Hotel Washington Monday with about 65 left-behind parents of children abducted to foreign lands. Harty sent form-letter invites to the parents in December, but the invitation list was missing the names of the two parents who State views as the biggest troublemakers: Patricia Roush and Thomas Johnson. According to an official in her bureau, Harty is trying to "send a message to all left-behind parents that you should not stir the pot."

Today's gathering is just the latest in a series of snubs suffered by Roush and Johnson. Roush, whose daughters Alia and Aisha were kidnapped from their suburban Chicago home in 1986 by their Saudi father, has persistently created headaches for State over the past 17 years. ""

[He Rides A White Horse]

Most have probably learned in liberal American schools that all cultures are 'equal', and then proceeded to find out how unequal the rest of the world is.

I guess those liberals lied. Sorry you had to find out the hard way.

[hocndoc]

This woman and her children are US citizens by our laws. Saudi Arabia does not recognize her US citizenship at all. Because she is female, she is the property of her father or her husband.

We should interfere because she is an adult who is a US citizen who has made a request to return to the home of her birth.

Actually, that's not interfering, that's protecting inalienable human rights.

[He Rides A White Horse]

...personally BumpStick Boy, I can think of plenty of reasons for blowing Saudi off the face of the earth..........

[He Rides A White Horse]

...however, because some stupid liberal decides to marry 'Salim' and gets burnt in the process isn't a reason to mobilize American troops.

[He Rides A White Horse]

...and while this article might speak of a different set of circumstances, I'll bet that most cases are of those who want to toss away their American heritage for some petrodollars----and of course if that doesn't work out, then the Marines must come save them.

Guess what: think the world is some realm of moral equivalence?.............let some of these besotten maidens find their way home and share their 'cultural experience' with the lasses of the homeland.

[Graymatter]

"I'm not sure that in practical terms it matters who is in the White House. I get the impression that State Department is a sovreignty on its own..."

Hooey. If George Bush wants a thing done, it gets done. This isn't as difficult as calling on Mr. Gorbachev to tear down a Wall.

And you are so right, whatever an abused woman does to survive is discounted. The Donner Party got more sympathy than the average abused woman ever could. Whether she submits and bides her time, fights back, takes him to court, or vanishes with "his" kids; no matter the circumstances, she's criticized. One would almost suspect a deep and abiding misogyny behind it all.

[Graymatter]

"US citizenship isn't really the issue here, since SA considers them SA citizens..."

In other words, "That the US considers them US citizens isn't the issue here, since SA considers them SA citizens."

Why do their considerations trump ours?

[He Rides A White Horse]

....and I'll say to you.........a friend of mine is getting divorced; his wife decided to take up with another man and is moving to another state. She might as well be moving to Saudi Arabia; he'll see his daughter when she wants him to. Which will probably be not very often.

This stuff happens in America every day; how many petitions have you signed to prevent this? None I'll bet.

[cherry]

hang in there!....

yes.....I agree....our state dept is more like a vehicle for other nations to get what they want from US....not the other way around....

hope things improve for you....in the mean time, keep the "home" fires burning because at least this will end someday....

[He Rides A White Horse]

Half of my friends are dealing with the 'Saudi situation'; except the 'Saudis' are their ex-wives.

.....let me know when you are ready to go to war for them. I'll be more willing to listen at that time.

[Ready4Freddy]

"In other words, "That the US considers them US citizens isn't the issue here, since SA considers them SA citizens."

Actually, I doubt that the US considers Sarah's children to be US citizens. SA is keeping other women & children who are definitely US citizens from leaving, so the citizenship in this case doesn't really matter, does it?

Why do their considerations trump ours?

Mostly because Sarah & the children are in SA. SA's laws preclude their leaving the Kingdom w/o the husband's / father's permission.

[honeygrl]

"OK, I admit, I do not know all the details of this story, but did the woman NOT know Saudi laws and customs before she decided to marry this raghead?(raceism not intended) Why is she in Saudi Arabia to begin with? "

From the article:

"Her Saudi father kidnapped Ms. Saga when she was 6 years old and refused to return her to her American mother. Saga grew up and was forced to marry a Saudi man; she had two children, and then found herself trapped in an abusive relationship."

[cherry]

whatever happens, don't let the INS get their hands on her....

do whatever it takes ...

it might mean moving around a bit for a while....

there has to be resolution for this somehow....

you may have to wait til she is 18..if you can keep her "hidden" til then...and then take her back to Egypt and get the thing done properly....

good luck, and God Bless you for not abandoning your child.....

[Rutabega]

My goodness! What an absolutely horrific story!!! My thoughts and prayers are with you!!! With my ex, he said he never wanted to move back to Sweden when we married, and it was a series of unfortunate incidents (he was a contract engineer, and working on three month visas, we tried to get him his green card after he was married, the INS dropped the ball with one of the apps, but didn't inform us, the company he worked for had a hiring freeze, and all contracts were stopped, we moved to Sweden for six months to get the visas worked out--I was not working at the time because my daughter was a baby!)
That said, I feel for all the young women (and men, because this happens both ways!) who trust someone that they love, and end up in a foreign country with none of the rights were acustomed to! Is it our fault? Well, I know in my case, I was too naive and trusting. Does that make me a criminal? No.
I am really hoping that things are resolved for you, I am feeling slightly luckier about my situation though, God Bless you and your daughter!!!