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Caracas, California (Chávez = Gray Davis?)
The New York Times ^ | 06/23/03 | William Safire

Posted on 06/22/2003 8:50:09 PM PDT by Pokey78

WASHINGTON

Voters of Venezuela and California have this in common: a growing number of disgusted voters are determined to upset, through referendum, the election of their chief executive.

Neither President Hugo Chávez nor Gov. Gray Davis has committed an impeachable crime. But both men's popularity has plummeted as a result of a sloppy or mismanaged economy, many voters' sense of betrayal and in Chávez's case, ever-deepening division among the electorate.

Is "recall" of a leader — elected by a majority for a fixed term but supported only by a minority — a good idea? Or should voters stare decisively at election returns and wait for retribution on a regular schedule?

First consider oil-rich Venezuela, long run by a corrupt oligarchy. Chávez and his populist party rode in on a wave of reform, captured the National Assembly and started packing the courts. His reach for greater power led to strikes, riots, capital flight, an abortive coup and, despite high world oil prices, an economy nose-diving by 10 percent a year.

Chávez is an ardent admirer of Fidel Castro. Like the Cuban dictator, he intimidates those who dare to oppose, encouraging violent attacks on his critics by thuggish supporters.

In a deal to permit re-election, he agreed to a referendum on his rule. But now Chávez is throwing up procedural roadblocks. His party is denying the National Assembly a quorum (an old Texas trick). Chávez is resisting a recall vote because he presumes that if the referendum to oust him succeeds, his currently divided opposition will unite against him in the election to follow.

California's governor, Gray Davis, though not a Castro follower, is in a similar position. Last year, as Republicans were about to choose a strong candidate in a primary to oppose him, he poured millions into TV advertising to tear down Mayor Richard Riordan of Los Angeles; when a weaker Republican candidate won, Democrat Davis easily defeated him. Picking one's opposition, though unprecedented, was considered a nifty trick.

Not so nifty was Davis's failure to disclose a looming huge deficit, necessitating nearly $40 billion in budget cuts or tax increases. Now that his heavy-spending chickens are coming home to roost, a bipartisan he-lied-to-us crowd is out in force and his approval rating is in the low 20's.

Seizing on what has been aptly called "voter remorse," the wealthy Republican Representative Darrell Issa is financing a recall campaign to dump the term-limited Davis. Bettors on the left coast tell me that with enough money, a million signatures could be collected in initiative-happy California to indict a ham sandwich (on whole wheat toast, of course, with alfalfa sprouts). If enough voters are egged on by TV advertising, talk-showboating and Weblog fury, the governor's recall will be on the ballot along with a separate list of potential successors.

Speculation centers on G.O.P. opponents like Issa, Riordan, previous opponent Bill Simon and "Arnold" (whose last name, Schwarzenegger, is too long for headline writers but somehow fits on a movie marquee). Democratic candidates such as Senator Dianne Feinstein are too shy to come forward lest they be considered backstabbers.

Thus, if Davis is afflicted with total recall, a replacement with as little as 15 percent of the total vote could be the next California governor. Is this any way to run a state as large as Iraq, to reverse a favored comparison?

With the world's fifth-largest economy and the world's fifth-largest oil exporter both in such a fix, a pundit should take a consistent stand. Thus:

Venezuelans should be given their right to oust their power-expanding president, because Chávez would then have the right to run in a subsequent race against the choice of the opposition. If that bunch cannot unite, they deserve their Castroite bully.

But Californians should suffer Gray Davis for three more years, voting like grown-ups not as penance for their mistake last year, but to uphold the principle that election results are final for a fixed term and officeholders should not be removed merely when ratings fall.

Wait — is it inconsistent to root for ouster of Chávez while espousing the retention of Davis? Walt Whitman: "Very well then I am inconsistent." Ralph Waldo Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. . . . With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do."


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002
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1 posted on 06/22/2003 8:50:10 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
Sorry, Bill.. that's BS. Under your 'rules' we shouldn't have impeached Bill Clinton, and what? No lying cheating thing someone does in office or during an election can be punished til the term is up?

Then why pray tell is there even an option for recall and impeachment?
2 posted on 06/22/2003 9:14:43 PM PDT by LaraCroft ('Bout time)
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To: Pokey78
G*d, Safire is such a NYT RINO. Insuffereable. Time to spend more time with the family Bill. You were a hero of mine years ago, but that was like 35 years ago.
3 posted on 06/22/2003 9:16:42 PM PDT by jocon307 (You think I exagerate? You don't know the half of it!)
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To: LaraCroft
Safire has increasingly lost my respect, week by week. This Barbra Streisand RINO sophistry is a waste of paper.
4 posted on 06/22/2003 9:34:34 PM PDT by friendly
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78; *calgov2002; Canticle_of_Deborah; NormsRevenge; snopercod; Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie; ...
calgov2002:

calgov2002: for old calgov2002 articles. 

calgov2002: for new calgov2002 articles. 

Other Bump Lists at: Free Republic Bump List Register



6 posted on 06/22/2003 9:51:24 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Recall Gray Davis and then start on the other Democrats)
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To: Pokey78
Last year, as Republicans were about to choose a strong candidate in a primary to oppose him, he poured millions into TV advertising to tear down Mayor Richard Riordan of Los Angeles; when a weaker Republican candidate won, Democrat Davis easily defeated him. Picking one's opposition, though unprecedented, was considered a nifty trick.

Ridiculous. Riordan was unacceptable regardless of Davis' tactics. The RINOS flatter the Dems altogether too much.

7 posted on 06/22/2003 10:16:30 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Pokey78
Cram it Safire.

Cram it NY times.

If this were a Republican governor they would be singing a whole different song.

Stay tuned for a little democracy in action.

8 posted on 06/22/2003 11:02:44 PM PDT by Bullish
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To: Pokey78
Safire doesn't get it. Davis didn't "fail to disclose," he flat-out lied about the deficit, then told the truth as soon as the election was in the bag. He continues to lie to this day, saying he's cutting the budget by doing things such as putting in the spending he *wants* to have and then taking it right back out of the same budget -- a ploy that has been around for years, but I for one am sick of it and ready to send a message. And I really love the tripled car tax being filed not under "tax increases" but under a "reduction in spending," because the government is no longer "spending" by allowing us to keep more of our registration fee.

For those who say Davis didn't commit an impeachable offense, maybe he *should* be impeached, and we could all ask what did he know about the budget, and when did he know it? It may be hard to prove but we all know he perpetrated a deliberate fraud on the voting public. The idea that refusing to let this stand sinks us to the level of a banana republic is a snide and elitist attitude. In fact it's letting this kind of unethical lying behavior pass year after year that is "banana republic" behavior.
9 posted on 06/22/2003 11:50:14 PM PDT by GOPrincess
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
bump
10 posted on 06/23/2003 12:03:29 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe; Pokey78; All
Thanks for the ping and the post.

Terrorism's Western Ally***U.S. intelligence is still coming to grips with reports that Al Qaeda and other Muslim terrorist groups are setting up bases in Venezuela. A London newspaper reports Osama bin Laden has established a training camp on Venezuela's Margarita Island, a tourist destination that also has an Arab-Muslim community and a bad reputation as a hangout for smugglers and terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.

The more you know about Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, and his list of friends, the less surprising this all seems. Footage shows Hugo hugging Iranian President Khatami. More footage shows Hugo hugging Libya's Moammar Gaddafy. By the way, you won't find any video of Hugo meeting, much less, hugging George W. Bush.

But Chavez has met with Saddam Hussein. In fact, he was the first foreign leader to visit Baghdad after the first Gulf War, and he expressed his admiration for Saddam. He has offered support to convicted terrorist Carlos "The Jackal." He considers Fidel Castro his mentor. He gives sanctuary to Colombia's FARC rebels, a group that is trying to overthrow the Colombian government and has also killed Americans.

Hugo Chavez came to power by tapping into frustration over Venezuela's corrupt political system. He was elected in 1998 by a landslide. Since then, Chavez has been engaged in what has been called a "slow-motion constitutional coup." He has abolished the senate, brought in Cubans as strike-breakers against the oil industry, and organized gangs to beat up opponents.***

11 posted on 06/23/2003 12:10:46 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Pokey78
Neither President Hugo Chávez nor Gov. Gray Davis has committed an impeachable crime.

I don't know about Chavez, but Gray Davis definitely has committed impeachable crimes. The protective legislature will not impeach Davis, although a few members initially wanted to investigate the Oracle bribery deal.

Assemblyman Dean Florez (D), lost his committee seat because he continued leading the investigation despite warnings from Speaker Herb Wesson (D); afterwards, Florez was no longer able to call the hearings. The Attorney General also failed to investigate, and he failed to recuse himself despite his conflict of interest (from also having accepted an Oracle bribe). Obviously, the investigation has ceased.

No, Davis was not impeached, but he may very well have committed impeachable offenses.

12 posted on 06/23/2003 12:21:25 AM PDT by heleny
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Gray Davis also abused the power of his office in the Electricity Crisis by negotiating secret contracts without oversight after avoiding the mounting energy problem during his dereliction of duty stint. To this day, he still retains the emergency powers granted by the "state of emergency."
13 posted on 06/23/2003 12:25:14 AM PDT by heleny
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To: Pokey78
Funny, I don't seem to remember Safire being too up in arms over Frank Lautenberg becoming the Dems' nominee after Robert Torricelli, the man who won the primary, dropped out of the race after the deadline for replacing him. I guess rules are only for Republicans to follow.
14 posted on 06/23/2003 1:05:53 AM PDT by NYCVirago
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To: heleny; NormsRevenge; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Tom McClintok will be coming up any time on http://www.krla870.com
15 posted on 06/23/2003 7:33:28 AM PDT by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar Div Viet Nam '69 & '70 Semper Fi)
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To: Pokey78; All
Thanks for posting this latest swill from the token and phoney conservative whore at the NY Slimes.

He and his counterparts who appear each weekend on the screaming head shows on ABCNNBCBS are paid actors pretending to be conservatives.

What a load of perpetual BS Safire and all of these so call conservative pretenders are.

GW, very wisely, has kept all of these traitors to conservatism locked out. They get no more of an audience with him than Arafat has.
16 posted on 06/23/2003 8:02:46 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Evil Old White Devil Californian Grampa for big Al Sharpton and Nader in primaries!)
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To: Pokey78
Neither President Hugo Chávez nor Gov. Gray Davis has committed an impeachable crime...Chávez and his populist party rode in on a wave of reformWrong SafireChávez is an ardent admirer of Fidel Castro. Like the Cuban dictator, he intimidates those who dare to oppose, encouraging violent attacks on his critics by thuggish supporters.

That last part is closer to the truth, but to call him a populist rather than a Marxist is so intellectually insulting I wonder what William Safire's motivations are.

Gray Davis, though not a Castro follower, is in a similar position. Last year, as Republicans were about to choose a strong candidate in a primary to oppose him

Wrong, Rioden's liberal tendancies simply would not have drummed up the vote from all counties other than San Fran and LA's "Republicans". I think we've found the answer people, somebody is still sad their RINO candidate didn't get the nomination and want to quash the recall.

Seizing on what has been aptly called "voter remorse," the wealthy Republican Representative Darrell Issa

Straight out of the DNC talking points. Man I hate RINO Republicans like Safire, they dither and stab you in the back in a heartbeat.

and Weblog fury

This is a slap at you reading this right now, FReeper. Why don't you just shut up and let elitist RINOs like Safire keep things stable?

But Californians should suffer Gray Davis for three more years, voting like grown-ups not as penance for their mistake last year

Since I voted for Simon, I will send and official looking bill to Safire for the difference in both state and state sales tax. What a pretentious jerk. Way to prove my "elitist" comment true Bill.

With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do."

What does Emerson say about pretentious, arrogant uninformed opinions, can you name drop what he said about those people?

I will never respect another article written by William Safire.

17 posted on 06/23/2003 11:36:35 AM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Press Secret; Of 2 million Shiite pilgrims, only 3000 chanted anti Americanisms--source-Islamonline!)
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To: kellynla
Thanks for letting me know. Did you catch him?

I kept hearing last week and earlier that the Secretary of State was to release his monthly report about the Recall numbers today. So far, I haven't heard and can't find any news reports with the new official numbers.

18 posted on 06/23/2003 2:06:55 PM PDT by heleny
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To: heleny
Helen, yes I did hear him. Basically he went over the triple tax on cars that he says are illegal and covered the recall. He has a petition going on the triple tax on cars on his website. He covered the legalities of the "gray" area about the possiblility of the Dimwit resigning before the recall election. McClintok wasn't real sure about what would happen nor I guess is anyone else. From the "Parade" section in yesterday's paper I see Arnuld is seriously considering running for governor and if he does he would get out of "pictures." If it were me I would stay in pictures. Too much money for a thankless job in government.
19 posted on 06/23/2003 2:43:49 PM PDT by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar Div Viet Nam '69 & '70 Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla
Thanks!

Davis says he's not resigning, according to CNN.

"I'm not going to retreat," Davis, a Democrat, vowed in an interview with CNN's "Judy Woodruff's Inside Politics."
....
Asked specifically if he would step aside if the recall effort reached the ballot, Davis replied "absolutely not."

20 posted on 06/23/2003 2:51:26 PM PDT by heleny
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