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Oglala riders retrace history (127th Anniversary of the Custer's Last Stand)
Billings Gazette ^ | June 25, 2003 | JAMES HAGENGRUBER

Posted on 06/25/2003 1:13:13 PM PDT by Land_of_Lincoln_John

CROW AGENCY - The descendants of Crazy Horse trotted across 360 miles of prairie for a chance to charge up Last Stand Hill early this morning.

The 20 riders of the Great Sioux Nation Victory Ride set out June 9 from the Cheyenne River Sioux Reservation in South Dakota. They wanted to take a slow, contemplative path to the battlefield where their ancestors found victory 127 years ago.

It was a chance to remind the tribe's young people of the one unmistakable outcome of the battle, rider Doug War Eagle said.

"We're still here," he said.

Tuesday night the riders pitched tents in a cottonwood grove along the Little Bighorn River, about 400 yards from where Crazy Horse and his family camped. Not far away camps were filled with horsemen and women from other tribes.

They will all be galloping across the battlefield today to mark the Indian Memorial dedication. Horses were vital in Plains Indian culture, and it's only fitting they play a starring role in the dedication, said Kitty Belle Deernose, curator of the battlefield museum.

"Indian people are still very much a horse culture," she said.

The Crow are sending 200 riders, including one riderless horse to honor Pfc. Lori Piestewa, a Hopi soldier who was mortally wounded in a March 23 ambush in Iraq. She was the first American Indian servicewoman killed in action.

The Oglala Sioux have sent 39 riders. The Northern Cheyenne will decorate 20 horses before riding up to the monument to honor their fallen warriors. The Cheyenne-Arapaho tribes of Oklahoma have also sent a horse, Deernose said.

Mel Lonehill, of Batesland, S.D., is part of the Oglala delegation, "Lokal Oyate Kawilau," which translates to "Gathering of the Traditional People." The group began riding on battle anniversaries 10 years ago.

"We honor our ancestors by riding," Lonehill said.

Horses came to the Plains Indians with the Spanish conquistadors. The Sioux called them the "holy dog," Lonehill said. "The horse came to our people and said he would travel with us if we would respect him."

Re-enacting a horse charge up Last Stand Hill is an amazing feeling, Lonehill said. If the rider is focused and spiritually prepared, he can visualize oncoming enemy warriors, even with tourists as spectators.

The Cheyenne River Sioux riders used their horseback journey to the battlefield as a chance to educate young people on traditional values. During the two weeks of the Great Sioux Nation Victory Ride, the descendants of Crazy Horse camped in sites once covered by their ancestors' teepees. They told stories each night and paid respects to their traditional allies, the Northern Cheyenne.

A support crew drove ahead each day to set up camps. The riders raised their own money but received food and places to stay along the way. The horses spent every third day at rest in a trailer, said rider Scott Dupree. The riders weren't always so lucky.

"I was sore by the time we got here," he said.

The days were long and hard, but spirits surged at the sight of the Deer Medicine Rocks outside of Lame Deer, said rider Floyd Clown. The group was given permission to camp next to the sacred rock formations, which bear prophetic drawings of the battle and the eventual murder of Sitting Bull.

The ride was mostly to infuse traditional values in the young people, Clown said. Marking the Indian memorial dedication is just a side event.

"Our monument is already there," Clown said. "That big, white monument up on Last Stand Hill shows our victory. It shows that our grandfathers were here."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Montana; US: South Dakota; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: crazyhorse; custer; lakota; littlebighorn; loripiestewa; sioux; sittingbull
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To: kms61
The Indians probably fared somewhat better under British Colonial rule than in the American nation-state that supplanted it,

Rummel, in Death by Government, puts the Indian death toll for the period from the Constitution to the end of the Indian wars at about 3000. I don't see any evidence to increase that number. That is less than 30 per year, not exactly evidence of genocide. Some of those deaths were on purely punative missions or in clearly defensive roles.

In the middle of this period the United States took a time out and killed 600,000 of our own. We had the capacity to obliterate any and all Indian tribes at any time we chose to do so. We did not. Read the Eastern newspapers of the time. The Indians had very powerful defenders and the sympathetic ear of the people.

41 posted on 06/25/2003 7:08:40 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: kms61
attacking under a flag of truce, and massacring women and children was a criminal act

And so is hiding behind a flag of truce. We just lost some good folks when the Iraqis did that. An Indian camp was more of a base than a city. People were always coming and going to hunt, to visit, to raid. Some of those in the Sand Creek camp had just come from butchering whites on the Eastern Slope.

I spent some time in the area when I was younger and mothers would command obedience from their children by threatening to "skin them alive". That was a holdover from the deep fears of the settlement days.

42 posted on 06/25/2003 7:31:29 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Did I ever say it did? My point is we were supposed to be the civilized ones. We didn't always act like it.
43 posted on 06/25/2003 7:54:10 PM PDT by kms61
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
It IS irrelevant in that IF, and I stress IF, what you say is true, it did not excuse the murder of noncombatant women and children. The fact that you apparently are trying to excuse those actions speaks volumes about your character.

We have nothing further to discuss. I don't conduct dialogue with poltroons.
44 posted on 06/25/2003 7:57:10 PM PDT by kms61
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To: MARTIAL MONK
I've heard that saying too and I grew up nowhere near the site of any Indian massacres.

Some of y'all are playing a moral equivalency game here. "They did it, so that excuses our side doing it." I'm not accusing anybody of being a Democrat, but....
45 posted on 06/25/2003 7:59:46 PM PDT by kms61
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To: kms61
No, I'm not doing the moral equivalancy thingie. Troopers after the Civil War were by and large the worst of the worst and it showed. Chivington's men weren't even up to that level. Many were recruited from the bars and shantytowns of Denver. They DID have a right to be outraged at what the Indians were doing around Denver. Scum + outrage = atrocity.

The nation was aghast at what happened at Sand Creek. I think that the broad reaction was a better reflection of the state the country's morals than what a few drunken bums did at Sand Creek.

46 posted on 06/25/2003 8:09:30 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Wasn't directed at you in particular, just some of the posts in general on this thread.
47 posted on 06/25/2003 8:16:10 PM PDT by kms61
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To: kms61
My point is that the U.S. policy toward the Indians was by and large humane. The Eastern press was quick to point out any transgressions on the part of the whites. They served as an unrelenting conscience for our dealings.

We could not tolerate the continuation of these barbaric stone age cultures. The murders had to be stopped. We did a fair job, at least in concept, of providing for them. The Reservations were not designed to keep the Indians in, they were designed to keep whites out. There were broken promises and outright crookedness in some cases but the policy was in the right direction.

I can promise the Greenies that the Clinton created National Monuments will be sancrosect as long as the grass shall grow . . .

48 posted on 06/25/2003 8:40:41 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: Scoutmaster
I agree. An ugly Chapter in American History. On the one hand, you have the Indians who were herded on ever-shrinking Reservations and lied to again and again. Every time we discovered gold on a Reservation, we took another piece and crammed the population into the smaller remainder. I have yet to visit a Reservation I can say is unequivocally "livable." Certainly those in the West are not.

Then again, the response of the Indians was to slaughter entire wagon trains of pioneers with such savagery, using live prisoners for target practice, or butchering the men while alive, flaying them etc. and gang raping the women until they died from loss of blood.

The operative philosophy of the US Govt at the time was "the only good Indian is a dead Indian." To some extent, they brought it on themselves early in our history. There were friedly tribes and warring tribes. The warring tribes sometimes sacked entire small communities. Their philosophy requiring that they kill 10 enemy for every brave lost in battle.

Well, the Judeo-Christian Western society developed to generally sparing non-combatants, women and children. The warring tribes sometimes sacked entire small communities -- their philosophy requiring that they kill 10 enemy for every brave lost in battle. It didn't take too many instances of seeing multiple massacres of women and children to convince the general public that Indians were "savages" (so called because they weren't baptized Christians) and their fate was sealed with a decision to mass exterminate all members of the warring tribes.

I remind my liberal friends of these good old days when they tell me modern Americans are so uncivilized. I agree, but only with respect to the 40 million aborted (murdered) babies since 1970.

49 posted on 06/25/2003 8:59:38 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Agree somewhat in that it was a fait accompli...it's the way of the human race, like it or not.

It WAS, however, naked aggression by today's standards. The Trail of Tears in particular was nothing more than a land grab at gunpoint, in defiance of a Supreme Court ruling, no less. And the Southern tribes were far from stone age or barbaric. They were on a technological level not much different than the whites, and many worshiped the Christian God.

It's to be remembered as well that Custer's campaign, the article on which started this thread, was a direct result of a broken treaty over the Black Hills.

It's part of our history....and it's how this country got to where it is today. But there are a lot of things that weren't very noble about how it all happened. Some people on FR apparently have a hard time admitting even that.

There may be a bit too much revisionism and political correctness going on WRT the way the Indians lived. I think that's a shame, because they're much more interesting as real people than as cardboard cutouts. BUT, there's also a fair amount of political correctness coming from the other side...an unwillingness to face up to some of the sordidness which the whites perpetrated. We've seen a bit of that on this thread tonight...along with some some just plain mean spirited ignorance.
50 posted on 06/25/2003 9:01:05 PM PDT by kms61
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To: kms61
I still challenge ANYONE (including YOU if you know how to use a LIBRARY) to read the books I have listed and not come away with a different opinion of the indian wars.

MY LIFE ON THE PLAINS by G. A. CUSTER

THE INDIAN WAR OF 1864 by Capt. E. F. WARE

MASSACRES OF THE MOUNTAINS by J. P. DUNN JR.

THE SAVAGE YEARS edited by SHEPARD RIFKIN

TOUGH TRIP THROUGH PARADISE by ANDREW GARCIA

LAND OF THE CONQUISTADORES by CLEVE HALLENBECK

There are many others but at your speed you might finish just these in about 20 years.
51 posted on 06/25/2003 9:02:29 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Have you heard of the SPICER family? The last family to be masssacred.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
I have read several of those books, and many others. This is my last post to you.
52 posted on 06/25/2003 9:10:44 PM PDT by kms61
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To: kms61
It was the depredations by the likes of Chivington and his ilk that set the example for the Nazis and encouraged Hitler and his goons to their deviltry, and in various sources they said so, explicitly.
53 posted on 06/25/2003 9:21:02 PM PDT by coydog (Out with Chretien!)
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To: kms61
The Trail of Tears was another travesty but the by defying the Supreme Court Jackson was cutting against the grain of our civilization. There will always be exceptions and regressions.

In the West we have our own various versions of the Trail of Tears, Chief Joseph, the Navajo's Long Walk, forcing the Apaches onto San Carlos. The overarching policy was to stop the depredations but to be fair to the Indians.

In acquireing these vast areas from the French or the Mexicans we acquired JURISDICTION over them. No one could accept maurauding and murder under their jurisdiction.

You are right the real cultures are far more complex and fascinating than what has been painted by even the most knowlegable pundits.

54 posted on 06/25/2003 9:32:45 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: coydog
***It was the depredations by the likes of Chivington and his ilk that set the example for the
Nazis and encouraged Hitler and his goons to their deviltry***

Strange. I've read the entire RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH and don't remember Chivington being mentioned.

Chivington also saved Santa Fe from falling to the Confederates at Glorietta Pass. This alone should exonerate him in the eyes of the abolishonists.
55 posted on 06/26/2003 5:00:41 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Have you heard of the SPICER family? You should see the photos!)
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