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[Missouri Governor] Holden vetoes concealed weapons bill
The Kansas City Star ^ | Friday, July 4, 2003 | KIT WAGAR

Posted on 07/04/2003 7:23:20 AM PDT by TroutStalker

With the stroke of a pen, Gov. Bob Holden on Thursday blocked the latest attempt to legalize concealed weapons in Missouri.

Holden vetoed the bill at a rally in St. Louis County, where voters opposed legalizing concealed weapons by more than 2-1 when the issue was put to a statewide vote in 1999.

Holden called the bill "a misguided legislative proposal that would overthrow the will of the people and place the lives of countless Missourians in jeopardy."

Gun-rights supporters were undeterred, saying they are gearing up to try to override the veto when the General Assembly meets again in September. With a Republican majority in favor of concealed weapons and many rural Democrats likely to defect from Holden's side, the bill's supporters say they already might have the votes.

Holden gave a litany of reasons for opposing the new legislation: Required training is inadequate; guns would be more available to children; permit holders from other states with no training could carry guns in Missouri.

Holden also said people with a history of mental illness and those convicted of domestic abuse could get permits to carry guns. He said the legislation would increase accidental shootings and would pose a risk to police officers.

"We have already had this debate on concealed weapons in Missouri and Missourians spoke loud and clear with a resounding `No!' " Holden said.

Gun-rights advocates said they were not surprised by the governor's action.

Kevin Jamison, president of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance, said Holden's veto meant that Missouri residents continue to be denied a right available to residents of nearly three dozen other states. Kansas, however, does not allow concealed weapons.

"This just shows he thinks Missourians are less trustworthy, less reliable, less sane and more violent than people in Arkansas," Jamison said. "Since he doesn't trust us, we don't trust him to be governor. And we'll vote accordingly."

Rep. Larry Crawford, the Centertown Republican who sponsored the legislation, said Holden's reasons for opposing the legislation were not borne out by the experience of other states. Concealed carry laws have not led to more accidental shootings, he said.

Experience shows that relatively few people who get permits actually decide to carry weapons, Crawford said. But criminals are less likely to attack because they don't know who might be armed. People with guns can step into emergency situations when police are not around, he said.

"Maybe it means more law-abiding people with guns are on the street," Crawford said. "But that just helps reduce crime."

The Missouri bill, with its requirement for eight hours of training and a live-fire test, has stiffer training requirements than most other states, he said.

Crawford said the 1999 proposition to legalize concealed guns -- which lost by 44,000 votes -- was not an accurate expression of Missourians' attitudes because turnout was only about 30 percent. The issue still prevailed in 104 of the state's 114 counties.

Opponents of concealed carry scoffed at such contentions. Todd Elkins, chairman of Missouri Impact, an inter-faith group of congregations, said Holden should be commended for standing up to the gun lobby.

The 10 counties -- including Jackson -- and the city of St. Louis that defeated the proposition are the large jurisdictions that provide most of the taxes and the jobs that power the state's economy, Elkins said. By trying to overturn a statewide vote, the legislature undermines confidence in government, he said.

Republicans have been pushing gun rights as an emotional issue to use against Democratic candidates. But concealed guns are bad public policy, Elkins said. They degrade the quality of public life by making it less safe.

"They are all about an individual saying his rights are elevated above the common good," Elkins said. "It says, `We don't trust the police. We don't trust government. The only person I can trust is me.' "

Elkins pointed to the shooting at a factory Tuesday night in Jefferson City. A worker concealed a handgun to get it into a factory and then opened fire, killing three people and wounding five others.

The man had no criminal record. He obtained the gun legally. And the police followed procedures in approving his purchase of the gun.

"Everything was done correctly, yet an obviously disturbed person got a high-quality gun and killed people," Elkins said.

But Crawford and Jamison said the Jefferson City shooting showed the need for a concealed carry law. Police can't respond fast enough in such a situation, but other workers could have stopped him if they had been armed, Crawford said.

Jamison noted that the man was stopped after exchanging gunfire with police officers.

"The first person with a gun who ran into him, stopped him," Jamison said. "If a civilian had had a gun, he would have been stopped earlier."

Holden rejected that argument. He noted the adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Police officers undergo hundreds of hours of training and still have difficulty hitting their target while under extreme stress.

"What we need to do is invest in law enforcement and community policing," Holden said. "Most people won't have the training to defend themselves... I have two boys that I take to Little League and soccer games. Do you want fans carrying guns to these games? That's not the direction our state ought to be moving."

The concealed guns bill is HB349.


To reach Kit Wagar, Jefferson City correspondent, call (816) 234-4440 or send e-mail to kwagar@kcstar.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: banglist

1 posted on 07/04/2003 7:23:20 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: *bang_list; Joe Brower
Bang!
2 posted on 07/04/2003 7:24:18 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
See also:

[Missouri Governor] Holden vetoes House concealed gun measure ^

3 posted on 07/04/2003 7:26:19 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
The gun banners won only because Bill and Hillary Clinton intervened to defeat the forces of good. One Term Bob doesn't know what good is, especially the law abiding folks he leaves at the mercy of the criminal element. Just like a good liberal. Sure, Kansas City/St. Louis voted against Shall Issue CCW, but so what? The rest of Missouri wanted it! But its a fact Holden is determined not to allow in the way to be on the gun banners good side.
4 posted on 07/04/2003 7:27:01 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

"The first person with a gun who ran into him, stopped him," Jamison said. "If a civilian had had a gun, he would have been stopped earlier."

Holden rejected that argument. He noted the adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Police officers undergo hundreds of hours of training and still have difficulty hitting their target while under extreme stress.

OTB is dissing the cops, too. Real smart.

I was talking with an airport cop about six weeks ago and he was putting Holden down, saying he never flies on anything but a state plane, and always with several bodyguards. Too bad the little people don't have such options.

5 posted on 07/04/2003 7:33:01 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
Our 14th's "equal rights" extends to protect We the Perople's 2nd's affirmed RTKABA.

Inconvenient to the elites ruling this nation.

Creating "compelling State interests" to promote central planners' unratified social welfare agendas, SCOTUS and inferior judges will not obey the very ratified Constitution from which they derive all LAWFUL authority.

Impeach and Remove them from their high offices for violating our Constitution, THE "controlling legal authority". Mocking serial violations of our Constitution is not" good behavior", the term of their appointment.
6 posted on 07/04/2003 7:39:46 AM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: TroutStalker
Holden called the bill "a misguided legislative proposal that would overthrow the will of the people...

How is it that the "will of the people" is overthrown when a majority of the state legislature votes for something? Something tells me that he will find out about the "will of the people" at the next election.

Meanwhile, I hope that you Missouri folks enjoy the lack of trust shown in you by your governor. I'm in Texas now, so I can carry (and am at this very moment doing so), but being from another nanny state originally (NJ), I know what it is like to be treated like a child by the authorities. I wish y'all better luck in getting a "divorce" from your "parents" than those in NJ have had.

7 posted on 07/04/2003 7:48:20 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: TroutStalker
Holden also said people with a history of mental illness and those convicted of domestic abuse could get permits to carry guns.

Or....they can get them now and carry them without a permit. Isn't there already a federal law against people convicted of domestic abuse from having guns? I also beleive if you legally buy a gun you have to at least deny that you are mentally ill on the application.
8 posted on 07/04/2003 8:06:35 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: TroutStalker
They are all about an individual saying his rights are elevated above the common good," Elkins said. "It says, `We don't trust the police. We don't trust government. The only person I can trust is me.' "

Damn straight. What's your point?

-ccm

9 posted on 07/04/2003 8:34:41 AM PDT by ccmay
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To: ccmay
I cannot believe he was actually arguing against the proponents of this bill with that quote.
10 posted on 07/04/2003 10:01:07 AM PDT by Hot Soup
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To: TroutStalker
"Everything was done correctly, yet an obviously disturbed person got a high-quality gun and killed people," Elkins said.

And the current law making it a felony to carry concealed under ANY and ALL circumstances (unless you're a judge -- a member of the privileged class) did NOT A SINGLE DAMN THING to STOP this guy from tucking a gun in his pocket and going in and blowing a bunch of people away.

In fact, the current law ABSOLUTELY PREVENTED ANY POSSIBLE LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN from stopping this idiot.

But don't bother Elkins with reason. He's a typical liberal. "But it feeeeeeeeelllls scaaary."

11 posted on 07/04/2003 8:00:07 PM PDT by Luke Skyfreeper
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