[fightu4it]

Why doesn't someone poll the survivors? At this late point most are no doubt out of the military and free to tell their individual stories.

It doesn't get any better than first person accounts.

[Courier]

Seriously. What is wrong with you people?

First person account? Do you understand this news. The event was recorded in real time. By the United States. Secretly.

There is no question there was an attack. There is no question that Israel attacked an American ship. There is no question that the Liberty crew saw Israelis attacking them.

The only question is what did the Israelis know.

Here an unimpeachable American source tells you in real time what the Israelis knew, or didn't know.

They did not know they were attacking an American ship until it was too late.

It was an unfortunate accident. Like us killing those Canadians.

[adam_az]

Often it doesn't get any WORSE than first person accounts!

Especially a "first person" who is inside a ship that's taking fire from highly trained IDF pilots.

The first person accounts of the Liberty survivors aren't even consistent on many basic facts, case in point:

Ask any lawyer or judge or police officer about the veracity (or lack thereof) of first person accounts.

[Burkeman1]

Try any google search and see what the survivors say. And then come back and tell me you have total faith in our government to tell the truth.

[Burkeman1]

Try any google search and see what the survivors say. And then come back and tell me you have total faith in our government to tell the truth.

[TruthNtegrity]

Well, interestingly in 1979, James Ennes did write a book - a first-hand account, which Cristol needs to discredit, and does so. Elegantly.

Frankly, I believe any of the story(ies) of those who were there over anything any agency of ours or theirs says. Somewhere in the conflicting information they all give is the truth, and that is what I will believe. If together, they say that they were attacked while the American flag was blowing in the wind, after trying to sqwak their identity over and over to the Israelis, then I think it is safe to say, for some unknown reason, a US ship was attacked.

.....I'm off to get the quotes from some Navy types on the Yahoo Group "Naval Intelligence Professionals", and I'll be back. I promise.

[Criminal Number 18F]

It doesn't get any better than first person accounts.

From an accuracy perspective, a first person account is just one of the raw materials of understanding. That's why, even though I read all the official after action reports from Operation Gothic Serpent, all the award writeups (including those that were not awarded or were downgraded), most of the message traffic, and spent an entire day debriefing one of the key players at the JOC, I really didn't have a good picture of the battle until I read Mark Bowden's Blackhawk Down. (Actually, his newspaper series, but that was the core of the book).

What's more, Mike Durant said (in his excellent In the Company of Heroes) that he didn't understand until he read Mark's book either, and he said most of the other participants also appreciated the book. (For those who don't know, Durant was a key player in the battle on 4-5 October, 1993).

You see, Mark wasn't involved in the battle, and he was able to talk to damn near everybody and get an overview of what was happening. That's why his book is one of the finest works of military history/reporting ever written -- and that's why every-damn-body in SF, 160th SOAR, and Rangers has a copy.

When you are in combat your horizon is very small. I would bet that the radioman people have mentioned knew lots of stuff other sailors didn't know, because he worked in the radio room. But because radio rooms are usually windowless, he didn't know a lot of stuff other sailors knew... just for one example.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[msdrby]

Why doesn't someone poll the survivors? At this late point most are no doubt out of the military and free to tell their individual stories.

It doesn't get any better than first person accounts.

Even when you're out of the military, you can't talk about classified material. It is a big deal that NSA has declassified this information. Now people can finally talk about it with some authority. Unfortunately, those who would have probably known best what was happening are not here to tell the truth of what happened.