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1 posted on 07/14/2003 1:31:46 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Interesting after-action reports. I enjoy reading these and their glimpses into the lives of the troops.

The M9 doesn't have stopping power. The .45 stops people, but many can't get accuracy with it.
2 posted on 07/14/2003 1:34:10 AM PDT by xzins
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3 posted on 07/14/2003 1:34:57 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: xzins
Duct tape kept some going. Zip ties did the trick for others. Needed: buckshot rounds.

These were just some of the comments soldiers and Marines had for teams of researchers who fanned out across the battlefields in Iraq to find out which weapons were what the troops needed and which ones weren’t up to snuff.

The war in Iraq tested not just the soldiers and Marines on the ground, but their gear as well. Two after-action reports from a Marine Corps Systems Command Team and an Army Special Operations Battle Lab collected comments recently to rate everything from uniforms to weapons.

Here’s what troops had to say about their weapons:

 

M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon

Soldiers found this light machine gun to be exactly what they needed. They fielded a version with a short barrel and forward pistol grip that soldiers loved.

“It provided the requisite firepower at the squad level, as intended,” the Army report stated. “The short barrel and forward pistol grip allowed for very effective use of the SAW in urban terrain.”

Soldiers also lauded the soft ammunition pouches as an improvement over the previous hard plastic pouch. Still, they said, there is room for improvement.

They said a better design for stowing the bipod legs is needed when using the pistol grip. Open bipod legs made urban movement difficult, the report said. The soldiers also rated the smaller 100-round pouch better than the 200-round pouch, in which linked ammunition became tangled.

Marines said the SAW they fielded was “worn out and apparently beyond repair,” the report said. “Many Marines are duct taping and zip tying the weapons together.”

Marine reconnaissance units requested a “parasaw” — a shortened version of the M-249 SAW designed for close-quarters combat and used by special operations units. Infantry units wanted a version with a collapsible butt stock.

 

M-240 machine gun

Marines who gave the first real-world test to the M-240G, the heavier successor to the old M-60 machine gun, weren’t disappointed.

“Marines who did not know what to expect were extremely impressed with effects on target,” the report said.

Soldiers, too, were impressed with their version, the M-240B. “Soldiers have great confidence in this weapon,” the Army report stated. “The vast majority of comments were positive.”

Still, soldiers said, some improvements could be made. Among their suggestions: a lighter tripod, and collapsible bipods like the M-249 SAW.

 

M-203 grenade launcher

Soldiers thought the M-203 grenade launcher attached to the M-16 was the “weapon of choice for combat.”

They praised the 40 mm grenade’s performance, but said it could have been more effective had troops been given more training with it.

The soldiers found that keeping a round in the chamber, ready to fire, was unsafe; they opted to keep the weapon empty until needed.

When soldiers did need the grenade launcher, they wanted a better round, especially for urban combat. “Some mentioned the need for a buckshot-type round,” the Army’s report said.

Marines, however, asked for something more like what enemy Iraqi forces carried: a rocket-propelled grenade, which had a range beyond what the M-203 could offer. The Marine report stated that the desire stemmed from the rocket-propelled grenades having been the most effective weapon used against them.

 

Shotguns

Both soldiers and Marines preferred shotguns for breaching doors. The Marine report said many doors in Iraq were heavy steel and reinforced with cross bars, making battering rams ineffective.

“Most agreed that, at a minimum, small units need to have a shotgun to breach the doors,” the Marine report said.

Soldiers felt the breaching shotgun could be shortened, according to the Army report. Some soldiers replaced the stocks with purchased pistol grips, and many said they would have preferred “sawed-off” versions.

Marines, in their report, said the six shotguns issued per battalion were not enough. They wanted one per squad and opted to use slugs over 00 buckshot, which they reported didn’t work well.

4 posted on 07/14/2003 1:42:19 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins

Some of the best gear soldiers and Marines used in Iraq was paid for out of their own pockets.

That’s according to recent after-action reports published by the Army’s Special Operations Battle Lab and a Marine Corps Systems Command Team. Researchers from both services interviewed soldiers and Marines in locations across Iraq to learn what worked well and what needs more work.

Simple things such as uniforms and boots issued by Uncle Sam weren’t up to snuff, the troops reported. Turns out some of the best gear they had, they bought themselves.

 

Rifle slings

The over-the-shoulder look for rifles wasn’t good enough for U.S. troops. The two-point configuration, in which the sling connects at the butt stock and just forward of the hand guards, didn’t allow for easy access to a weapon when it was needed most.

The three-point sling, howver, connects the rifle to the soldier by connecting to the butt stock, the receiver and close to the sights. The configuration allows the rifle to hang free when not in use and the slings don’t entangle when the weapon is raised to fire.

Some Marine and Army units purchased “three-point” slings with unit funds. In other units, soldiers and Marines often ponied up the money to get their own.

“Soldiers are purchasing their own slings because the issued variant does not provide the flexibility or comfort they require,” the Army report stated. It added that soldiers felt the three-point slings “allowed the weapon to be slung on their back or hung on their chest so they could respond to contact faster.”

The Marine report said Marines requested a three-point sling “be issued with each M-16A2.”

 

Holsters

Dissatisfaction with the current M-9 9 mm holster was so strong that the Army report said plainly, “The issued 9 mm holster is not used.”

The leather shoulder holsters didn’t hold up well in the sandblasted Iraqi environment. An alternative holster clipped on a load-bearing vest didn’t fare much better.

“If the 9 mm is your personal weapon, you don’t want to have to always wear your LBV in order to have your weapon with you,” the report said.

The alternative most troops preferred came in the form of “drop holsters,” bought with personal funds from commercial outlets. Marines paid up to $65 for holsters that looped to the belt and strapped around the leg from companies such as Special Operations Equipment.

Marines also bought “phone-cord” style lanyards — cords designed to keep the pistol connected to the body.

 

Global positioning systems

Soldiers and Marines alike preferred commercial global positioning systems to the military’s precision lightweight GPS receiver.

“As widely known, many soldiers purchase their own GPS systems rather than use the PLGR,” the Army report said. The Marine report showed that entire units bought smaller commercial GPS units for their Marines. “The commercial market produced small, lighter and more easily used GPS,” it said.

 

Uniforms

Soldiers wanted their desert-camouflaged uniforms with pockets on the sleeves, much like the new Marine Corps’ digital Marine Pattern uniform.

“Soldiers realize they will wear the IBA (Interceptor Body Armor) in almost all environments from now on,” the report stated. “The pockets on the front of the DCU are all but useless.”

To solve the pocket problem, many soldiers took matters into their own hands.

“Many soldiers have already had a tailor sew pockets on their sleeves,” the Army report stated.

Soldiers even suggested a similar move for trouser pockets — moving them to the front of the leg — because gas masks block pockets on the thighs.

 

Boots

Soldiers complained the desert combat boots’ soles were too soft and held in too much moisture. They said the soles were “easily damaged by the terrain.”

Some soldiers had their boots resoled with commercial Vibram, with mixed success. But they also found the boots lacked ventilation, preferring a boot with holes, such as the jungle boot, to allow moisture to escape. Soldiers also said the desert boots were too tight.

“Many soldiers did not use the bottom set of lace holes to reduce pressure on the top of their feet,” the Army report stated.

Although the Marine Corps didn’t field comments about the boots issued to Marines, the Army report noted “the Marine Corps Desert Boot has a very good reputation.”

5 posted on 07/14/2003 1:44:56 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Safety was another concern. The M-4’s bolt can ride forward when the selector switch is on safe, allowing the firing pin to strike a bullet’s primer.

“Numerous soldiers showed us bullets in their magazines that had small dents in the primer,” the Army report said.


Ouch! That could be a real problem. In a combat situation you need to have a round chambered at all times – if not actually in combat the safety should be on and the finger on the selector.

Reliability complaints also found fault with the oil soldiers and Marines used to clean their weapons. In the dusty, sandstorm-plagued battlefields of Iraq, weapons became clogged with sand, trapped by the heavy oil, called CLP.

From my experience weapons oil has been a complaint as far back as 1966.
In Viet Nam (on Army boats) we used axle grease on the exterior of our M2s and M60s, and used motor oil on the interior.
We had a real white glove inspection from a team sent over from Fort Eustis – the only gig was on weapons maintenance. They insisted we use the issue light oil. We cleaned the weapons under their supervision and applied the light oil – and everyone watched the rust immediately form on the barrels. The issued oil was worthless in the high temperature, high humidity salt air.
One size seldom fits all.

Both soldiers and Marines also noted problems with the M-9 9 mm pistol.

But we can’t go back to the tried and true M1911 .45 pistol – unless NATO also changes.
11 posted on 07/14/2003 3:08:42 AM PDT by R. Scott
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To: xzins
For some reason, the services don't want to come to the conclusion that the m-16 family is sub-par for actual battle conditions. They would be much better with a larger caliber weapon that doesn't jam when you need it most. At least give the guys graphite instead of that CLP crap. And the other poster was correct, that light oil they dole out will only rust your weapon immediately. And as far as pistols go (or rifles for that matter), spend the money and get our guys a sig sauer or HK in .40 cal so they can defend themselves. Some of our current crop of weapons and parts are made outside the US so why dont we just buy the best there is? Jeesh, sometimes I wonder if the people at the top are even listening.
17 posted on 07/14/2003 4:35:24 AM PDT by Rocketwolf68
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To: xzins
Current M16A2s, M4s and other 5.56mm weapons use a 62-grain bullet, informally known as the SS-109. Been that way for many years if not almost 2 decades. I forget the official nomenclature or DODAC number.

The 55-grain round was used in the M16/M16A1. It can be used in the A2 or higher, but the DODAC number is rare in the inventory.
20 posted on 07/14/2003 5:01:57 AM PDT by A Simple Soldier
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To: xzins
This report also mentioned the soldier's satisfaction with the "battle axe" used as an entry tool. Do we have an honest-to-god issue battle axe, or is this just something that individual units picked up off the shelf? Anybody got a link or a picture of one?
38 posted on 07/14/2003 7:30:17 AM PDT by MikeJ
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To: xzins
bump
44 posted on 07/14/2003 7:50:02 AM PDT by VOA
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To: xzins
Bump for future reference.
50 posted on 07/14/2003 8:13:46 AM PDT by Euro-American Scum (Conservative babes with guns are so hot)
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To: xzins
The report said Marines asked for a heavier-grained round — up to 77 grains

I believe this larger round would require a different twist ratio for the barrel. I'm not sure the existing rate would stabalize the bullet.

52 posted on 07/14/2003 8:16:46 AM PDT by asformeandformyhouse
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To: Shooter 2.5
Bump for a later read.
59 posted on 07/14/2003 8:33:22 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: xzins
In the NY Post a couple of weeks back, I saw a picture of a couple of US troops guarding an American official. The troops might have been Delta, because their uniforms were black, but they had US flags on their uniforms.

They were carrying AK's rather than M-16's.

72 posted on 07/14/2003 9:12:17 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer looking for next gig)
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To: sphinx; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; curmudgeonII; roderick; Notforprophet; river rat; csvset; ...
Let's talk guns.

If you want on or off the Western Civilization Military History ping list, let me know.
84 posted on 07/14/2003 10:08:11 AM PDT by Sparta (Check out my new blog, http://bayousage.blogspot.com)
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To: *SemperFi
Marine ping
178 posted on 07/14/2003 4:04:02 PM PDT by anymouse
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To: xzins
1. CLP was developed to stay in place and function in the rainforests and swamps of Vietnam. It is an adequate lube in normal conditions, but only dry lubes are reliable in the sand. Oils and greases are worse than useless in sand and grit.

Didn't we go through all this in Desert Storm?

2. The M-9 and the 9mm round worthless.

So9

183 posted on 07/14/2003 4:24:34 PM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Real Texicans; we're grizzled, we're grumpy and we're armed)
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