German jitters over US military pullout

expatica.com | 14 July 2003 | Staff

[LavaDog]

MUNICH - German concerns of a major US military withdrawal from Germany in retaliation against Berlin's opposition to the Iraq war were heightened by a weekend interview with the head of American forces in Europe.

US Marine Corps General James L. Jones, who is also the new US NATO commander in Europe, confirmed that the United States is considering major changes in the size and structure of its military in Europe, including converting large, rigidly staffed bases to smaller, more flexible forces.

All US bases in Germany currently are under review with exception of giant Ramstein Air Base which, because of its strategic importance, Jones said in an interview with Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

"We would like to operate Ramstein for as long as we're welcome in Germany," he was quoted as saying. "I don't want to talk about the others."

While saying it was premature to speculate about base closings, Jones said "a whole array of concrete proposals" have been put to US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfield for consideration.

His remarks came in the wake of a German press report earlier this year claiming that the United States will close a number of its giant military bases in central and southern Germany, leaving only Ramstein and Frankfurt air bases and one tank brigade largely intact.

The economies of a number of towns in southern Germany are dependent on the presence of American military personnel and their dependents.

The report in Die Welt newspaper quoted "well informed" sources as saying the cuts will affect some 40,000 U.S. Army infantry forces currently stationed in far southern Germany. The US presence at those bases, including Heidelberg, will be trimmed to just 10,000, the report said.

The report cited three reasons for the troop withdrawals from Germany. Firstly, the American armed forces are undergoing major restructuring in all sectors. Secondly, the US is keen on increasing its military presence in Eastern Europe.

And thirdly, the United States is mired in a bitter dispute with France and Germany over Iraq and the expansion of NATO to Eastern Europe. Germany has been home to the core of the US military on the continent since the end of World War II.

Jones reportedly wants to reduce the 100,000 U.S. personnel based in Europe in favour of a smaller, rotating force that could quickly respond to emerging contingencies, such as in the Middle East, Africa or Asia.

A smaller, rotating troop presence would allow the Pentagon to close schools, military commissaries and other infrastructure for dependents.

US and Polish officials have denied they are holding discussions to move US bases in Germany to Poland.

Warsaw, which maintains close ties to the United States, strongly supported the US-led war against Iraq.

Bulgaria and the United States reportedly have discussed the installation of up to five US military bases on Bulgarian territory if US bases in Germany close.

[BenLurkin]

Moving bass into eastern Eurpoe may reflect new political realities, but would be a strategic mistake IMHO. When we go to war with teh EU, the bases will be isolated and incapable of being re-supplied.

BUT, FReepers who are veterans know more about this than I.

[ICX]

$20 says the Dems spin this into "U.S. Military contributes to German recession" if we pull out.

[ChadGore]

and the NYT will report it as " "U.S. Military contributes to German recession, women and minorities hardest hit"

[LavaDog]

and the NYT will report it as " "U.S. Military contributes to German recession, women and minorities hardest hit"

Don't for THE CHILDREN.

[txzman]

Paybacks are a heck of a problem :)

[Thermalseeker]

I was eating lunch in a local restaurant recently and our waiter appeared to be military judging by his haircut and physical fitness. I asked him if he was military and he said yes. I asked him if he'd been in Iraq or Afghanistan, he said, no Romania. I asked what he was doing in Romania. He said "Our government is pissed with Germany and they are planning to move all the bases out of Germany." He said he was in Romania helping to relocate and establish new bases.

It's happening as we speak.

[xzins]

The bases would be small in footprint and extremely flexible. England will not go with the EU. It will go with the US because of its faith in the Anglosphere.

The last time we used England as the major staging area we defeated Europe. We will also establish a foothold in Africa/northern Africa, the Balkans, and Iraq.

We will take oil out of their picture before we allow the EU to defeat us.

[caltrop]

We've had 75,000 GIs (and their dependents) in Germany for over ten years now at huge cost and with no mission. If the reason we're leaving Germany is their lack of support for the Iraq War, then our leadership is even more screwed up than I suspected. Our ground forces should be brought home. Leaving a tank brigade in Germany, in light of the fact we could send tanks to Kosovo faster from Savannah, GA (the tunnels through the Alps were too small for our tanks so they'd have to have been sent by sea) than from Germany, is idiotic.

[BlueLancer]

"When we go to war with teh EU, the bases will be isolated and incapable of being re-supplied."

If we've gone to war with the EU, I would say that resupplying bases INSIDE enemy territory would be harder than resupplying Poland from the Baltic and the Czech Republic, Romania, and Hungary from the south through Italy and the Black Sea. I would hate to count on resupply overflights from England or Italy fighting their way through fighter CAPs in France and Germany all in the effort to resupply Kaiserslautern or Mannheim Kaserne.

[biblewonk]

This is great, especially if you consider the recession Germany is already experiencing.

[Billthedrill]

We've been calling this one for years on FR, and it's coming to pass. It really hasn't anything to do with Iraq directly, or German politics. It's simply that both the order of battle and the disposition of forces have changed radically with the end of the Cold War, and no military planner worth his salt would tolerate keeping the old ones in force for economic or political purposes.

Rammstein will be last to go because we have the most invested in its infrastructure, and it is a marvellously-placed strategic asset with respect to air lines of communication. But ground troops? Please. We simply have to be more realistic than that. They're too expensive to waste.

[meandog]

"U.S. pulls out, leaving Germany unsatisfied"

[George W. Bush]

The base closings in southern Germany are in the heart of the old Nazi heartland. This is where anti-semitism is really on the rise.

Hopefully, the remaining Jews will start leaving Europe before it's too late. They will be safer in Israel or the Americas.

[Deb]

Hun base interuptis

[Chewbacca]

The Germans should never have built an economy dependent on military bases occupied by a foreign military.

Tough luck dudes.

[Imal]

So long, and thanks for all the schnitzel.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

"U.S. pulls out, leaving Germany unsatisfied"

LOL, funniest line of the week. And so telling of what we need to do to Germany.

[Old Sarge]

Coming back to FR, from a long abscence, I'll offer this for all:

Since July last year, we were offered and occupied an old Soviet base in Hungary. 1st Inf. Div. used it for live-fire training, as well as training up the new Iraqi Army - a force of about 3,000 Iraqi ex-pat's.

Poland is talked about big-time, and they're welcoming us with open arms.

The scuttlebutt I get from my bretheren overseas is, the Krauts are soiling their lederhosen (sp) over the thought of the pullouts. The two bases I heard which might survive the closings are Ramstein, and Hohenfels. The idea of an armor formation staying behind supports the Hohenfels rumor. Ramstein is logical, as it's our main APOD (Air Point Of Departure) in the region.

I hope I can contribute more in future. Thanks, FReinds!