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Libertarians Eye Wyoming for Relocation of 20,000 Persons
Cheyenne, Wyoming Tribune-Eagle ^ | 07-23-03 | Olson, Ilene

Posted on 07/23/2003 9:27:50 AM PDT by Theodore R.

Libertarians eye Wyoming for relocation of 20,000

By Ilene Olson Published in the Wyoming Tribune-Eagle

CHEYENNE – Wyoming’s low population and conservative mentality have put the state in a prime position be the target destination for 20,000 Libertarians as part of the party’s Free State Project.

“We like Wyoming,” said Keith Carlsen, spokesman for the project. “It’s not only a beautiful state, but it has the lowest population. It’s easier to persuade less people.

“Wyoming is one of the most pro-freedom, independent-minded states in the country,” Carlsen said.

But Gov. Dave Freudenthal said Libertarians “are overestimating the receptivity of their ideas in the state.”

And local economist Dick O’Gara warns that an influx of 20,000 people could put a burden on the state’s employment system and cause unemployment to rise.

As of Friday, 4,703 Libertarians had signed up nationwide to participate in the project. Literature on the Free State Project describes it as a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to one state and work within its political system to reduce the size and scope of its government by two-thirds.

One-fifth of the project’s members are retired, with most of the remaining members in their 20s and 30s, he said. Carlsen, who stopped off in Cheyenne during a publicity trip through Wyoming this week, is 21.

A vote on which of 10 states identified as possible homes for the movement will begin Friday and continue through Aug. 15, Carlsen said. In addition to Wyoming, those states are Alaska, Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota and Vermont.

“We’re not actually going to move until we have 20,000 people,” he said. While plans call for membership to swell to that number by 2006, “I think we can do it in two years,” Carlsen said.

After that, the members will move to the selected state within five years.

Carlsen said Wyoming and New Hampshire are the unofficial favorites so far.

Selling points for Wyoming include the state’s lack of an anti-hate crimes bill and the Wyoming Supreme Court’s recent ruling that bars cannot be sued for continuing to serve already inebriated customers, even if they go on to cause a fatal car crash afterward.

Those are indicators that political correctness has not infiltrated the state’s government, Carlsen said.

A report co-authored by Carlsen says, “This is a state that consistently responds to candidates advocating a small government agenda.”

But another report by Greg Garber and Peter Saint-Andre notes that “Wyoming’s government sector is a bit larger than one would desire,” with 22 percent of the state’s population working for federal, state or local governments.

That report said the archetypical Wyoming resident “is characterized by the various meanings of the word ‘ornery.’ This can mean obstinate, cantankerous, obstructionist, resentful and revengeful, or independent, individualistic, non-conformist, and strong-minded.

“Over the years, outsiders (particularly Easterners used to the snarls of city dwellers), have fallen in love with the good, sweet, innocent, lovable, open-handed sons and daughters of the West, only to find out later that there’s hard rock underneath. Things like loyalty, respect, consideration and instant handy response to emergencies and disaster are embedded in the rock too.”

Carlsen’s report touts Wyoming’s lack of personal or business state income taxes. It also cites the state’s rating as “America’s Wealth-Friendliest State” by Bloomberg, and its ranking by the Tax Foundation as the state with the most business-friendly tax climate.

In addition, the Republican Liberty Caucus considers Wyoming’s congressional and legislative delegations to be the most libertarian in the nation for both fiscal and social issues, the report says.

Carlsen cited examples such as U.S. Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., who was the only senator to vote against a recent trade restriction bill, and state Rep. Keith Goodenough, D-Casper, who voted against a tax on cigarettes during the 2003 Legislature and is pushing to legalize marijuana in the state.

“Can we win in Wyoming?” the report asks, then answers with “a resounding yes.”

Free State Project members “could build a majority by capturing a mere 57 seats among … the smallest districts of all our candidate states. Elections are so cheap in Wyoming that the Wyoming U.S. House and Senate elections cost less than 25 percent as much as the same elections in New Hampshire,” the report said.

Freudenthal disagreed with that logic.

“I do think they’re picking out a few things and reading more into them. They see them as much greater bellwethers of opinion than the average citizen does,” he said.

In a separate report, Carlsen predicts that finding jobs won’t be a problem for the 20,000 people the project would relocate to the selected state.

Because 20 percent of the people in the project are retired or will soon be retired, only about 15,000 would need jobs, he said.

Carlsen writes that many of the project’s members are single.

“Chances are high, that if these single members marry, they will marry other Free State Project members or citizens of the selected state.” Some of those families are likely to choose to live off one income, he said.

In addition, a large number of Free State Project members are self-employed, with another group working through the Internet, he said.

Additional jobs are available within 100 miles of the state’s borders for professionals who feel the drive is worth it, he added.

Carlsen says in the report that moving 20,000 people into any state will create new jobs and demand for services.

“By the time the move to the selected state is being completed, 1,000 to 3,000 jobs will have been created simply because of our moving to the selected state,” he said.

In addition, “as many as thousands of us will be elected to office,” Carlsen writes. “Many of these public office jobs are full-time jobs with full-time pay. Once in office, we will begin to reduce regulations and business restrictions.

“This will open up, potentially, thousands of new jobs for the taking. The selected state will turn into the Free State and become a per-capita powerhouse” regardless of which state is selected, he said.

O’Gara, director of the Center for Economic and Business Data at Laramie County Community College, called that assertion “laughable.”

O’Gara said an influx of 20,000 people in the state is more likely to create a rise in unemployment than many additional jobs.

“There would be some truth to that on the retirement side, where people have existing incomes. They’re in a position to buy homes.”

The rest are job keepers and are looking for income. They’re not going to be generating jobs.

“Either the unemployment rate will soar, or they are going to displace existing workers. My guess is that the majority will not have the job skills we’re looking for, and that most of them will have to take a wage/salary cut if they move to Wyoming,” O’Gara said. “The cost of living may be higher than they are anticipating, especially in terms of housing.”

“We’re barely holding our own when it comes to any job creation,” O’Gara said. “It would probably take them 10 years to get 20,000 people in here.

“It is extremely remote that this will ever materialize,” he said of the entire project.

Though he disagrees with the logic behind the Free State Project, Freudenthal said the Libertarians are free to move forward with it.

“They’re entitled to their opinions and whatever actions as long as they operate within the laws,” he said. “It’s a free country.”

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: carlsen; enzi; freestateproject; freudenthal; fsp; libertarians; nh; porcupines; relocation; wy
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The influx of these Libertarians could make WY a DEMOCRAT state!
1 posted on 07/23/2003 9:27:51 AM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: Theodore R.; Skibane; jlogajan; AdamSelene235; coloradan; jimt; freeeee; Pahuanui; tdadams; ...
Head 'em up!
2 posted on 07/23/2003 9:29:46 AM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: Theodore R.
Let's see ... 20,000 people move to Wyoming. Will there be enough jobs?

“By the time the move to the selected state is being completed, 1,000 to 3,000 jobs will have been created simply because of our moving to the selected state,” he said.

Okay, let's give you the high side. 3000 jobs. You're still 17,000 jobs short. What else have you got planned?

In addition, “as many as thousands of us will be elected to office,” Carlsen writes. “Many of these public office jobs are full-time jobs with full-time pay.

Yes!! That's it! If everyone could go on to a government payroll, there would be no unemployment! These socialists have really figured out how to make government the master of us all!

What's that you say? These folks aren't socialists? They're ...Libertarians?? Well, I'll be d*mned.

3 posted on 07/23/2003 9:35:26 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
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To: gcruse
They will have to pick a warmer State if they want my participation.
4 posted on 07/23/2003 9:42:11 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: Theodore R.
Interesting, if a bit silly. And please, enough with the static analysis of what the economic impact would be, especially regarding jobs.

If the project reached its goal of 20,000 participants, the first thing that would throw econ theory out the window is the fact that this is an influx of self selected individuals. Presumably, they would be making the final decision to move with a bit more than a couple of dimes in their pockets. I would guess that a huge percentage would either be retirees/wealthy and without the desire for a job or already have one lined up.

And they certainly wouldn't fit a nice bell-curve model of population increase statistics. The age demographics are clearly skewed at the edges, so you have a smaller percentage of high-wage professionals with 20+ years experience.

There is no telling what kind of new market would open up in a state with such activist libertarians. And if they succeeded in tilting the state's politics, the effects could be drastic, economically speaking, and not for the worse.

But, I suppose I should just listen to the nice gentleman from the Laramie County Comunity College (the Harvard of the square states?) and leave this alone.

5 posted on 07/23/2003 9:45:45 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: ClearCase_guy
Funny stuff.
6 posted on 07/23/2003 9:46:50 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Theodore R.
I'm THERE!

Libertarians won't be bitching and moaning about no jobs. These are the people who MAKE jobs. They make it happen with absolutely no complaints to anyone. I would love to live in a libertarian state--NO state income taxes, NO property taxes, NO sales taxes, every major function of government privatized--thousands of people working in the free market free of government control...just beautiful.
7 posted on 07/23/2003 9:48:05 AM PDT by Capitalism2003
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To: gcruse
My sister used to live in SW Wyoming. I understand why the University of Wyoming colors are brown and yellow; they don't realize there are any others.
8 posted on 07/23/2003 10:00:25 AM PDT by tnlibertarian
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To: Theodore R.
“Wyoming is one of the most pro-freedom, independent-minded states in the country,” Carlsen said.
A report co-authored by Carlsen says, “This is a state that consistently responds to candidates advocating a small government agenda.”
Carlsen’s report touts Wyoming’s lack of personal or business state income taxes. It also cites the state’s rating as “America’s Wealth-Friendliest State” by Bloomberg, and its ranking by the Tax Foundation as the state with the most business-friendly tax climate.
In addition, the Republican Liberty Caucus considers Wyoming’s congressional and legislative delegations to be the most libertarian in the nation for both fiscal and social issues, the report says.
Carlsen cited examples such as U.S. Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., who was the only senator to vote against a recent trade restriction bill, and state Rep. Keith Goodenough, D-Casper, who voted against a tax on cigarettes during the 2003 Legislature and is pushing to legalize marijuana in the state.

In less words... Wyoming is the most Libertarian state in the nation... All we have to do is change the drug laws and we are in Libertarian heaven.

9 posted on 07/23/2003 10:01:10 AM PDT by Between the Lines
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To: Theodore R.
Just for the record, the Free State Project is not affiliated with the Libertarian Party, and the author does not seem to grasp the difference between libertarians and Libertarians either.
10 posted on 07/23/2003 10:06:54 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: Between the Lines
" All we have to do is change the drug laws"

Good luck with that.  Ashcroft knows no boundaries or Amendments. And he is setting anti-Constitutional precedents for his successors.
11 posted on 07/23/2003 10:07:10 AM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: gcruse
And I'll bet there are also (fewer) people to persuade in addition to less!
12 posted on 07/23/2003 10:13:25 AM PDT by marlon
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To: Theodore R.
With a population of just under 500,000, this 20K of Libertarians would make up 4% of the population of Wyoming. So, instead of managing less than .5% of the vote in any given election, they'd get maybe 8%, considering the number of adults in that 500K.

Wonderful. Still marginalized, but slightly bigger.

I've hunted in Wyoming a number of times, and that state is made up of individualists, by and large. I can just see some glasses-wearing, overweight, 20-something libertarian trying to convince a long-time resident of Wyoming that big changes are needed.

"Sure thing, sonny."

It is to laugh, but I'd welcome the loss of the few libertarians in my area....good riddance.
13 posted on 07/23/2003 10:15:44 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Capitalism2003
"I'm THERE!"

Well, actually, you appear to be in Kentucky. When are you moving?
14 posted on 07/23/2003 10:16:53 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: JohnGalt
Just for the record, the Free State Project is not affiliated with the Libertarian Party, and the author does not seem to grasp the difference between libertarians and Libertarians either.

Heh, heh. Sounds like one of many libertarian bashers here at FR.

15 posted on 07/23/2003 10:17:44 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: Theodore R.
We allow over 1,000,000 immigrants in this country each year, and all of a sudden there is a problem finding 20,000 jobs? I hope something comes of this movement.
16 posted on 07/23/2003 10:18:55 AM PDT by stevio
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To: ClearCase_guy
Last I heard, they had set their sights on Idaho, not Wyoming.
17 posted on 07/23/2003 10:19:20 AM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: Theodore R.
Sounds a little like Ayn Rands group of businessmen who founded a freemarket town in a secluded valley.
18 posted on 07/23/2003 10:25:35 AM PDT by Chewbacca (UAF Nanooks rifle team rules! Best in the nation.)
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To: wimpycat
And I had heard it was New Hampshire. They don't know where they are going. As another poster pointed out, they will represent 4% of the pop. if they move to Wyoming. That won't win them any elections. But it will drive up real estate prices and the unemployment rate.

This is just a dumb idea. Almost like a cult-thing where you give up your current life, move across the country and hope for a miracle that's never going to come.

19 posted on 07/23/2003 10:26:59 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
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To: Theodore R.
The influx of these Libertarians could make WY a DEMOCRAT state!

Pro-gun, free-market, low taxes, private education....I don't think so.

20 posted on 07/23/2003 10:27:50 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (EEE)
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To: wimpycat
"Last I heard, they had set their sights on Idaho, not Wyoming."

I can see it now...20K new potato farmers. And they'd make up less than 1.4% of Idaho's population.

But, I don't want to discourage them from moving...not by any means. That would get rid of the idiot who runs for state Assembly here every election as a Libertarian. His main issue: He doesn't like the fact that the local Board of Supervisors is making him clean up the garbage dump that is his 5-acres. He manages about 100 votes each election, but wastes a heckuva lot of time at Supervisors meetings, each of which he attends and addresses.

His moving to Wyoming or Idaho would be a blessing.
21 posted on 07/23/2003 10:28:03 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Capitalism2003
BUMP!!
22 posted on 07/23/2003 10:28:13 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (EEE)
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To: ClearCase_guy
As another poster pointed out, they will represent 4% of the pop.

That, of course, is assuming that Wyoming has a zero "libertarian population". I assume otherwise. I also assume that the State is populated by people similar to those who say "Libertarians can't win, so I dont vote for them". An influx of 20,000 die-hard libertarians may persuade many other residence, over time, to vote Libertarian. No one is proposing that anything will change overnight.

23 posted on 07/23/2003 10:37:22 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: Chewbacca
"Sounds a little like Ayn Rands group of businessmen who founded a freemarket town in a secluded valley"

Wasn't there a Twilight Zone episode about a group like that?
24 posted on 07/23/2003 10:37:39 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Click Logo to Vist their site.


25 posted on 07/23/2003 10:37:41 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: HurkinMcGurkin
"The Wyoming Libertarian Party today claims major party status,
> according to Dave Dawson, Wyoming Libertarian Party Spokesman. LP
> candidate Marie Brossman, in the race for Secretary of State, received
> 29,000 votes, or 17% of the total.
"

From the web site of the Wyoming Libetarian party. One candidate managed to get 17% of the vote. However, that does not mean all 17% were libertarians.

Still, suppose all 20K of the Free Staters had also voted for her. She would then have received about 30% of the vote. Probably still not enough to win this single state office.
26 posted on 07/23/2003 10:41:50 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: JohnGalt
author does not seem to grasp the difference between libertarians and Libertarians either.

Well neither does DOS, Windows or Google. But Unix does.

Seriously the "little l, big L" thing has to be one of the stupidist inside jokes ever and hurt both sides. Somebody should rename for clarity.

27 posted on 07/23/2003 10:45:15 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: MineralMan
Still, suppose all 20K of the Free Staters had also voted for her. She would then have received about 30% of the vote. Probably still not enough to win this single state office.

I don't know. If the Libertarian Party could get 30%, then the Republicans and Democrats would probably split the other 70% in some elections. If even 5%(and definitley if 10%) of each party crossed over and voted Libertarian, they could very well have a chance. Not saying it will happen, but I don't think its as unlikely as some may think.

28 posted on 07/23/2003 10:46:21 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: Jack Black
Rather like republican versus Republican, no?
29 posted on 07/23/2003 10:47:17 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: MineralMan
what is interesting is that it was an R vs. an L with no D running. That is a good trend, even if th L loses it shows the politics have shifted away from socialism.
30 posted on 07/23/2003 10:48:57 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
The vote was something like 140,000 for the R and 40,000 for the L.
31 posted on 07/23/2003 10:49:44 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: wimpycat
No vote has taken place, so any comments about what state has been picked are premature. We'll all know in September.
32 posted on 07/23/2003 10:51:13 AM PDT by Jack Black
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: HurkinMcGurkin
"I don't know. If the Libertarian Party could get 30%, then the Republicans and Democrats would probably split the other 70% in some elections. If even 5%(and definitley if 10%) of each party crossed over and voted Libertarian, they could very well have a chance. Not saying it will happen, but I don't think its as unlikely as some may think."

So, I went and looked up the results for the 2002 election. In the Sec. of State election mentioned, no Democrat ran at all. In the race for their Congressperson, where there was a Dem. candidate, the Libertarian party managed almost 6000 votes, about 3%. In the race for Governor, also with a Dem. Candidate, they pulled almost 4000 votes, about 2%.

The extra 20K Libertarian voters, assuming they all agreed on a candidate, would have not affected any of the elections in any way.

Add to that the inevitable annoyance the Wyoming population would feel at being invaded by a bunch of 20-something, overweight Linux programmers and a bunch of drug-promoters, and the effect would be even less.

Still, I should stop discouraging this movement. I'm all for it, and Wyoming is a great place for them to go. It's nicely isolated, and I can switch to hunting in Colorado or Montana instead.
34 posted on 07/23/2003 10:53:42 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Huck
As Mark Steyn had pointed out in one of his columns, this is what DID happen to Vermont - except it was lefties/flower childern/tree huggers and Ben & Jerry lickers who migrated there.

A relatively small number of newcomers now deliver Leahy to the Senate and Sanders to the House.

35 posted on 07/23/2003 10:56:58 AM PDT by G L Tirebiter
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To: MineralMan
Do you know if, or how often, someone runs for office in Wyoming on the Libertarian ticket?
36 posted on 07/23/2003 10:57:31 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: gcruse
I can't see the Feds allowing this to happen in Wyoming (re: Cheyenne Mountain).
37 posted on 07/23/2003 10:58:02 AM PDT by bassmaner (Let's take back the word "liberal" from the commies!!)
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To: N3WBI3
Lies. I'd tell you to think again, but its obvious you didn't think the first time. But that's typical of the libertarian bashers.
38 posted on 07/23/2003 10:59:21 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: ClearCase_guy
This is just a dumb idea. Almost like a cult-thing where you give up your current life, move across the country and hope for a miracle that's never going to come.

Just what folks who staying in Europe told your grandparents, no doubt. Were the doubters right? They and their kids got to stay and enjoy two centuries of war, the holocaust, and depending where they were from another 50 years of totalitarian communist rule. Now they get four weeks vacation though.

Millions move HERE every year, basically for more FREEDOM and the benefits freedom delivers, like a vibrant economy. What is so odd about people moving to a state to get more of the same. I think people do it all the time. The migration west is largely about that. I lived in NYC for a year, and when I got to California I felt much freer. For one thing I could buy a gun. That's a big deal. Trying buying a gun in NYC. I did. You can't. Only the elites are entrusted. So I just view this as a little more organized version of what happens anyway. It's good for states to compete, right? The laboratory of the states. Clearly some states like NY, California and Mass. are choosing to go to a more socialist, high tax style of life. There needs to be alternatives, and there are. I've moved twice since that move at age 20 to California, always in the direction of states that I percieve are more free.

One of the best things about the FSP is that they did a lot of work to get real facts on things like all forms of taxation in various places so you can use their data for whatever reason you want. Including moving to a state that you think is better than where you are, either alone or with 20,000 friends.

39 posted on 07/23/2003 11:00:13 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: HurkinMcGurkin
You can go here for the Wyoming Election results for 2002. That's where I got my stats. Libertarians ran for Governor, Sec. of State, and for US Congressional representative. All lost miserably.

http://soswy.state.wy.us/election/2002/results/02result.htm
40 posted on 07/23/2003 11:00:24 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: G L Tirebiter
As Mark Steyn had pointed out in one of his columns, this is what DID happen to Vermont - except it was lefties/flower childern/tree huggers and Ben & Jerry lickers who migrated there.

The second part of your sentence contradicts the first. LOL!!!

41 posted on 07/23/2003 11:00:29 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: MineralMan
Thanks for the link!
42 posted on 07/23/2003 11:00:55 AM PDT by HurkinMcGurkin
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To: bassmaner
"I can't see the Feds allowing this to happen in Wyoming (re: Cheyenne Mountain)."

Nah. They wouldn't care, because it wouldn't make any difference. You can still move wherever you want in the USA, no matter what your political party. I don't expect that to change.
43 posted on 07/23/2003 11:01:21 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Mr. Bird
I moved to the Pocatello, Idaho area from San Diego, CA. I do exactly the same work that I did in San Diego, but I no longer have a corporate office in town. All my projects are in other parts of the U.S. There isn't a single business in Pocatello that pays anything close to my current salary. Pocatello actually lost population in the last 10 years as people left the area in search of employment. The city council is driving business away with taxation and fees.

I could easily set up an office building and build a software engineering group of the caliber that I was running in San Diego. That isn't the problem. The problem is tracking down a sufficient backlog of work to keep such a group busy. Until the demand for such services picks up, I'm on my own to keep the bills paid with the small group of customers that has discretionary money for projects at this time.

Wyoming is already rated the most business friendly state with respect to government policy and taxation. I don't see a lot of room for improvement. The individuals moving into Wyoming had best be prepared to live without the conveniences of city life. Few large chain stores with their favorable pricing and product offerings will locate a store in a small town. Pocatello and Chubbuck comprise 60,000 people and we still don't have a Barnes & Noble Bookstore. The Home Depot just arrived last year. Walmart, K-Mart and Fred Meyer are well patronized because of folks driving into Pocatello to shop from a 30 mile radius.

44 posted on 07/23/2003 11:09:23 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Capitalism2003
My wife and I were up in Laramie this past weekend and were discussing moving there. I like it, no people. We both work online so It's no problem unless my company sends my job to New Delhi.
45 posted on 07/23/2003 11:13:00 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: Mr. Bird
There is no telling what kind of new market would open up in a state with such activist libertarians.

My guess would be head shops.

46 posted on 07/23/2003 11:14:46 AM PDT by Moonman62
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To: Moonman62
"My guess would be head shops."

That, and Linux consultancies.
47 posted on 07/23/2003 11:16:01 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Theodore R.
How would a bunch of people who don't vote 'rat suddenly make WY 'rat? Please explain. Also, since you probably think libertarians vote 'rat anyway, you should be happy that they'll be leaving all the other states. Why, just think - if only a few thousand libertarians had left a few midwest states, Republicans would have been elected instead of the 'rats which were. Does your rhetoric include that consideration, or does it only go one way?
48 posted on 07/23/2003 11:19:11 AM PDT by coloradan
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To: gcruse
I do not believe this plan will work.

Still, I'd rather have them choose NH, simply to get a few more pro-freedom people here.
Wyoming is a little too far from the sea if you ask me.
49 posted on 07/23/2003 11:31:25 AM PDT by RJCogburn ("We don't know no Emmitt Quincy."......Emmitt Quincy)
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To: RJCogburn
I hear that. And they're both too cold for me.
50 posted on 07/23/2003 11:32:19 AM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.blogspot.com/)
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