'GIANT SUCKING SOUND' OF LOST JOBS GETS LOUDER

The American Reporter ^ | July 25, 2003 | Randolph T. Holhut

[Tokhtamish]

Don't try to play the race card. It exposes the total bankruptcy of your cheap labor position.

The loss of the manufacturing jobs a generation ago was a blow the non-college educated half of the American workforce never recovered from. It was a blow the cities of the Northeast never recovered from. So blandly assuming that entire careers can be exported and "something will turn up" is something the American people can see with their own eyes is foolish. Nothing turned up for the steel workers. What will turn up for the programmers ?

American industry is not responding to outsourcing and globalization elsewhere. It is leading it. It is spearheading the destruction of the first world middle class for the benefit of a few at the top. It is not in the least a survival imperative. It is eating the seed grain greed, nothing more.

[RockyMtnMan]

If they underbid us and take our job, perhaps we should worry less about our self-esteem and more about enhancing the value of the product we offer for sale.

Nonsense, we are talking about labor not widgets. Their are inherent costs that make workers more or less expensive.

Say I'm the best software engineer in the US and Wang Foo is the best in China. Wang will work for $5k a year and I will work for $60k yr to do the same job at the same level of quality.

Wang lives in a shack, has a broadband connection and pays 50 cents for a sack of rice. The Chinese government gave Wang everything he has and allows him to keep enough of his wages to feed his family and buy a few trinkets. Whatever Wang doesn't get goes back to the Communist party to build missles and bombs in preparation for the Taiwan onslaught.

Do I need to explain how I spend my 60k or do you get the point?

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

"Is Karl Marx's quote on free trade relevant today?"

Well, I think China's apparent embracing of Globalism and "free" trade may just be a means to an end.

Here's Steve Farrell referencing Karl Marx on this subject:
"Communists and socialists feel sure that setting up international “free” trade systems which impose regulations chuck full of intrigues, redistribution plans, arbitrary law, and interdependence schemes, will win out against the conservative interests of every free nation.
What could be better than to use “free” trade to reverse the advantage of the relatively free, moral, prosperous, and strong nations of the Earth, so that the tyrannical, amoral, poor, and weak nations of the socialist bloc might get the upper hand?
What could be a more cunning approach than to market the idea that those who oppose “free” trade are enemies of freedom?"
http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml?a=2000/6/27/105655

[1rudeboy]

Marxist Free Traders

Stop it, Willie! You're cracking me up! [hoot]

[ex-snook]

The U.S. economy would have to generate an average of 300,000 new jobs a month from now until the end of 2004 to create 5.5 million new jobs "

MISSING 16 WORDS

"FREE TRADE NEGOTIATORS HAVE SECRET PROOF THAT 5.5 MILLION JOBS WILL BE GAINED IN AMERICA'S ECONOMY."

But these words were removed because President Bush could not document them but he has previously given many other reasons why his job creation policies will be successful.

[steve86]

Just an hour ago when I pulled up to the speaker box at McDonalds to order a Big Mac and fries, the person taking my order was actually in Tiawan

Are you joking here? If not, that's a new one on me.

[Alberta's Child]

The loss of the manufacturing jobs a generation ago was a blow the non-college educated half of the American workforce never recovered from. It was a blow the cities of the Northeast never recovered from.

Interesting perspective. The manufacturing jobs that left the Northeast a generation ago didn't go to China or Malaysia -- they went to North Carolina and Tennessee.

And the fact that those jobs left the Northeast didn't necessary mean that something was "wrong" with the system.

[1rudeboy]

Yeah, explain how long and hard Wang Foo will work for 50 cents when he knows he's worth 60K.

[.cnI redruM]

Excuse me, bankruptcy. Economic obsolesence is a natural phenomenon. It's happened as long as human beings have manufactured. When the wheel was invented, dragging things on big, flat sleds became out-moded. Over-the-road trucking killed the horse and wagon business.

Every time this happened, the same Jeremaids get written. The automobile just about killed the horse farm. An entire generation of horse farmers had to very rapidly root hog or die. Was it fair? no. Are hurricanes or tornadoes? Gripping about it makes no more sense than John Cougar Mellencamp at a Farm Aid Concert.

Labor and Capital no longer add the same level of value to finished goods they once did. You can adjust to that fact or die from it. That doesn't make my cheap labor arguement bankrupt.

Anyone denying the racial animous aimed at the newer, non-european immigrants has never listened to Ross Perot describe his opposition to NAFTA and the sinister Mexicans that sneak across the border in the dead of the night. Why he'd stand up there like a clay pigeon to defend your job from "them".

[RockyMtnMan]

So you believe in making crappy trade deals to boost a communist country's economy?

Who represents the workers in this country (hint federal government)? When our best interests are not being met our government (of the people, for the people, by the people) is supposed to step in an back us up (tariffs, taxes, etc).

Corporations don't give a damn about people (if they can't make money from you), so if the government doesn't step in the middle class is SOL.

[Alberta's Child]

Yeah, and the first time Wang Foo mistakenly logs on to FreeRepublic using his broadband connection, he's saving up his 5k salary to get his family on a plane to the U.S.

Incidentally, the discrepancy between what an American earns and what Wang Foo earns is not just because he's content to live in a hut (he probably isn't), but because the salaries posted here are measured in U.S. dollars. Since we have a very strong currency, Wang Foo will always earn less than his U.S. competitor even if he lives in a mansion.

[RockyMtnMan]

He's never going know since all his news comes from the People's Daily. Even if he did find out he couldn't move if he wanted to. If he did manage to move then he would get canned and Wang Fa would take his place back in the homeland. If he complained about his wages Wang Fi would step up to the plate as well.

[Alberta's Child]

Corporations don't give a damn about people (if they can't make money from you) . . .

Absolutely. And guess what: People don't care about corporations, either -- unless they can make money from them).

[1rudeboy]

Perhaps you don't understand that the government cannot act in the best interest of anyone without adversely affecting the best interest of someone else. You present a false choice.

[1rudeboy]

Is that your problem? You want everything to remain static? Whose side are you on?

[RJS1950]

This is exactly the reason why the bleeding of american jobs needs to stop quickly. The more who go unemployed, the less americans there are who can afford to buy goods and services (regardless of whether they are made by americans or not) and this means that more companies will lay off because of reduced sales. Exporting jobs merely gives a short term profit, but further reduces the buying power of the american economy and depressing that economy more. And don't say that these layed off americans can all start their own business or retrain. Not everyone can start their own business and if they all tried, it wouldn't work because an economy of primarily small business owners will not generate the growth of capital needed over the period of time needed. In terms of retraining, that takes time, which prolongs the depressed economy. Besides, many of the older workers are being shut out simply because it is cheaper to hire younger, less experienced workers regardless of the level of training/retraining.

[.cnI redruM]

Ahh yes, the subsidized industry argument. Russia, Cuba and North Korea had or still have governemnt subsidized industries and none of their workers even need health or dental. Their government plans take care of that.

Of course there's a reason I'm running WIndows2000 not Castro2000. Wang Foo is going to go online, see pictures of what you spend $60K. He's going to look at the shack he lives in that would fall over if he urinated on one of the walls.

He and about 6.5 billion of his pals are going to start asking questions and not like the answers that Chicom.com gives them in return. At that point, they are going to rise up like LA did after the Rodney King verdict. One of these days The Tiennamen Square Gambit will uterly fail.

Wang Foo and his buddies will behave like the zombies in "28 Days Later" and CHina will look an awful lot like Eastern Europe does now.

[RockyMtnMan]

The government can act in the best interests of everyone by ensuring a competitive market place. That is done by imposing excise tax on widgets that cannot be competitively produced between two trading partners.

Competition improves quality and lowers costs, isn't that a basic principle of capitalism?

[Alberta's Child]

Competition improves quality and lowers costs, isn't that a basic principle of capitalism?

Go back and look at the previous example you used, involving manufacturers moving their operations out of the Northeast and into the South. Can you explain how quality would be improved and costs would be lowered if those jobs stayed in the Northeast?

[Alouette]

The people out of work would eventually find jobs and in the meantime we would all enjoy our 4000 square foot $1.00 houses. That is a plus not a minus.

The minus side is that you would have to move to China in order to live in the house, or else hire a shipping company to dismantle it, pack it, ship it and reconstruct on your property in the U.S. which would cost $400,000.