Johnny Can't Add

www.fredoneverything.net ^ | June 28th, 2003 | Fred Reed

[Paul Atreides]

As long as schools have diversity, what need is there for learning? /sarcasm

[genefromjersey]

Eye opening !

[rockprof]

Go to any large college and look at the graduate departments in engineering, math, and sciences. At least half of the students will be foreign (I'm speaking from experience having spent a fair amount of time in several colleges and universities).

I also teach science at a two-year college. Virtually none of my students (high school graduates all) have any competency in even simple grade-school mathematics.

My wife and I are planning to homeschool are children (currently toddlers).

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

The dumbing down of American education I don't deny, but two demographic trends are also potent.

First, the people who are in America are only those who were able to--and especially among Asians there has been a systematic tendency that the dumb ones couldn't get here. So the ones that are here are disproportionately professionals.

And another issue is the fact that post-secondary education is now practically the norm in America--even among groups which do not hold education up as a primary cultural value. I doubt that remedial English/Math would exist outside that context.

The article notes that there are an awful lot of people in Asia; when empowered by the Internet and cheap PCs the top 0.01% of their IQ bell curve inevitably constitutes a force to be reckoned with. What reason is there to suppose that American secondary education as we know it can in the long run withstand competition from the top 0.1% of Asia's bell curve acting through the Internet?

[wideminded]

I think that a lot of the problem with American education is due to the fact that in America there is little respect for learning. In American high schools the student who excels in mathematics or science is a "nerd". The depiction in movies or on TV of a young person succeeding academically is exceeedingly rare. Only athletic accomplishments are glorified. I saw a display case in a high school a few years ago that was permanently devoted to the accomplishments of students who went into pro sports. There was no corresponding display concerning the students who became doctors, scientists, and engineers. The groups that seem to produce the most scientific talent are the same ones that have the highest respect for learning and academic achievement.

[dilpo]

Some US kids CAN add. But they get nowhere in the math field cause of the way our graduate programs are run.

My son graduated Phi Beta Kappa from a top 10 university with both a masters and bachelors degree in theoretical (pure) math, with almost a 4.0 average. He took only very tough academic courses in math and the sciences. He got straight 800's on the GRE (perfect scores). He wanted to get a Ph.D. from a top math school.

His applications to MIT and Berkeley were rejected. Both schools admit almost only foreign students to their math Ph.D. programs. He went to Columbia.

He was one of only two US students entering the math Ph.D. program that year. There were two Russians, two Koreans, two Chinese and one Australian. After the first year the other US student had dropped out.

My son got a second masters. But when he went to take his pre dissertation examination he could not get three faculty members to show up to examine him. They just didn't care. After a year he got burned out and quit. He is now about to graduate from a top five law school and has done quite well there.

US universities have no interest in educating US citizens in mathematics. The way he was treated was extraordinarily shabby. So instead of a top mathemetician which we could use we get another lawyer.

[chasio649]

well said!

[Young Werther]

This year I submiited a legislative proposal to the Texas Committee for Higher Education. I proposed that action begin to motivate our children to study Math and Science by converting the International Space Station, upon completion, into the premier 21st Century Institute for Higher Learning. Convert it into a Space University and fly students into space to study. Not since 1957 and the adventures of Homer Hickam of "October Sky" fame has space offered the opportunity of a generation.

I subsitute teach and when I ask "Would you like to fly and study in SPACE" the Yeahs! are screamed! It's unfortunate that budget deficits at the state level negate this plan. All to often we see the "dumbing down", (post regarding SAT analogy portion of test), rather than the creative thinking!

[Semper911]

two demographic trends are also potent.

You make some excellent points here.

[George W. Bush]

This year I submiited a legislative proposal to the Texas Committee for Higher Education. I proposed that action begin to motivate our children to study Math and Science by converting the International Space Station, upon completion, into the premier 21st Century Institute for Higher Learning.

It might be cheaper and more entertaining to put all the bad math and science teachers on rockets and launch them into the sun.

If your current legislative proposal doesn't catch fire, try that one.

[sourcery]

They're professionally hungry. We no longer are.

Bingo. That's the root of the problem: a socioculturally-driven devolution of the character of the American people. That's the fundamental process at work, as opposed to immigration, H1B visas, outsourcing, etc. Those things are all effects, not causes.

[Wilhelm Tell]

American schools, and Americans in general, do not value theoretical science -- it's not "practical" enough. A lot of Americans see college as a place students should go to get a vocational education -- hamburger flipping and remedial math (so they can give people the correct change), yes -- physics or pure math, no.

When a lot of Americans say they value education, what they really mean at best is that they hope their children will graduate from high school or at least earn a G.E.D., or at worst they want their children to pass the substance-abuse course the judge mandated rather than going to jail.

Our whole system is geared towards the vision educationists had 100 years ago -- provide just enough literacy so that children will grow up to be able to follow simple directions and do repetitive tasks at some factory. Exceptional people can break out of that mold, work hard, and become truly educated. Such people are also considered a threat to the system and, as you found out, they generally do not get much praise or support.

[Bahbah]

"My wife and I are planning to homeschool are children"

Would that be "our" children?

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

Virtually none of my students (high school graduates all) have any competency in even simple grade-school mathematics.

My wife and I are planning to homeschool are children (currently toddlers).

What would happen if, say, The University of Phoenix Online, were to adopt a "graduate assistant" approach to online teaching at the High School level? U.Phoenix could recruit crackerjack Asian students to enter its online curriculum tuition-free and with a subsistence stipend just like graduate assistants at the college level. The stipend and the costs of each such "undergraduate assistant" could be defrayed by that assistant's support of a "Prep School of Phoenix Online" program--marketed to American parents who, like you, demand more of school than Political Correctness.

Seems to me such a system could arouse and meet eager wants on both the supply and the demand side . . .

[John Will]

I may end up somewhere else than America if this trend contunes. I was one of those nerds in Highschool. It's so pitiful the way learning and intelligence is disrespected, the current ghetto curtrle fad encourges this stupor also. Liberalsm is the factor, we need to get the liberals out of education.

[txzman]

Welcome to the world of New Math. Here in North Texas our children now get to "write" about their mathematical experiences in elementary and middle school.

Never mind that they don't know their 12 x 12 multiplication tables. Or how to do long division.

But they sure know how to write mis-spelled paragraphs telling you how hard it was to try.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

"are children"

Would that be "our" children?

Probably so, don't you think?

[Poohbah]

I think that a lot of the problem with American education is due to the fact that in America there is little respect for learning.

Where else but in America can being called "smart" be an insult?

[Ruth A.]

A while back another poster jumped on me for saying that a glut of engineers would have a part in their unemployment (and he also claimed that engineers from other countries were not as good as home-bred engineers). It seems as though you have found where the jobs are: research. At the very least, you point out that home-bred researchers (etc.) may not be as competitive in the job market. Food for thought.