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Muslim Fights MoD Charge
Sky News ^ | July 31, 2003

Posted on 07/31/2003 5:17:00 AM PDT by Prodigal Son

A Muslim reservist airman is bringing a test case against the Ministry of Defence, after he was disciplined for refusing to take part in the Iraq war.

He is appealing on the grounds that his faith forbids him from fighting other muslims.

Moshin Khan from RAF Suffolk was called up earlier this year but failed to turn up. He was charged with going absent without leave.

His lawyers will argue that the European convention on human rights gives everyone the right to freedom of religious belief - including military personnel.

He is not the only person to have refused to serve in Iraq. Two other British servicemen, a private and an air technician from 16 Air Assault Brigade, were sent home from the Gulf after refusing to fight.

But they refused to fight for moral reasons and not religious ones.

In previous conflicts, conscientious objectors in the armed services have been jailed for refusing to fight.

Khan was arrested by Suffolk police after going absent without leave in February.

He had reported for training but then decided he could not fight and went into hiding. Police handed him over to RAF investigators.


TOPICS: United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: islam; muslimtroops; uk
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1 posted on 07/31/2003 5:17:01 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
So this guy refused to fight in a war against a tyrant who'd slaughtered more Muslims than anyone else in modern history? Oh, sure. Makes perfect sense to me.

/sarcasm

2 posted on 07/31/2003 5:20:02 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: Prodigal Son
He is appealing on the grounds that his faith forbids him from fighting other muslims.............

What a whopper of a lie. These foofs make it up as they go along and expect us to believe their fairy tales. Just take a look at the Iran/Iraq with a million Muslims killed by Muslims. Or Hama Syria where dictator Hafez Assad slaughtered 20,000 Muslims in 1982
3 posted on 07/31/2003 5:24:36 AM PDT by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: Prodigal Son
So, even though he broke his soldier's oath to defend his country - since it does not allow him to pick and choose his enemy to fight - the EU's civil rights rules let him go scot free? If this works, then the EU has cut its own throat.
4 posted on 07/31/2003 5:32:41 AM PDT by MortMan (Tag - Does this mean "I'm it"?)
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To: MortMan
If this works, then the EU has cut its own throat.

With any luck.

5 posted on 07/31/2003 5:36:08 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: Prodigal Son
I might as well throw this short article in with this one. It didn't really warrant a thread on its own (IMHO) but it is an interesting additional note to the concessions we make or are being asked to make to accomodate other cultures:

Muslim women get pool privacy- source Chicago Trib

CORALVILLE, Iowa -- Women whose Muslim culture and religion keep them from donning swimsuits and jumping into the pool on hot days got a treat from the local recreation center.

Workers there taped over the building's windows, giving privacy to a group of women from the University of Iowa Association of Muslims in America. They and their children were then able to swim in privacy Sunday night in the indoor pool at the Coralville Recreation Center.

"There's a certain level of modesty Muslims have to follow," said Asma Haidri, who studies prelaw and political science. "Only the face, hands and in some cases, the hair are allowed to be seen in public."

They arrived at the center wearing traditional khumurs, or headcovers, and long flowing dresses. Many swam in T-shirts and shorts instead of bathing suits.

"When you grow up near the water, you can really miss it," said Ghada Bawazeer, a pharmacy student who formerly lived near beaches of eastern Saudi Arabia.

-----------

Now, one of the things I find interesting in this is the assertion by this Asma Haidri that Muslims can only let their hands and face show. This is merely his opinion. We have a very nice friend who is a Muslim woman from Iran. Her family wound up leaving after the Shah was overthrown. This young woman is very beautiful. She wears Western clothes and is very proud of her body. She goes to the gym in normal spandex type female workout garb, she wears a bikini to the beach and even sunbathes topless when the situation seems appropriate (ie when it seems acceptable or the norm at the beach in question).

This is the key difference between Western and other culture. Many dems in the past tried to draw comparisons between fundamentalist Christians living in the US and fundamentalist Muslims in the Middle East. The thing is, the key difference between the two and the one that renders the argument absurd is this idea that the individual should be the one to judge how he or she practices his or her religion. That simple idea is the major difference between Western Culture and Middle Eastern Culture. This friend of ours can lead a happy life the way she chooses, can assimilate into her new home succesfully (she's a doctor) and can still be a Muslim and identify culturally with Muslims.

Freedom. It's a glorious thing.

6 posted on 07/31/2003 5:44:12 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Pretty scary when you consider that this can't be the only serviceman with this attitude. The Brits need to clean house, as do we.
7 posted on 07/31/2003 5:44:34 AM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: Prodigal Son
What would happen if Christians demanded special hours to use the pool?
8 posted on 07/31/2003 6:08:45 AM PDT by sticker
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To: Prodigal Son

Hello,
This is in reply to your posting that I recently came across. First of all, I should clear up that I am a female (you incorrectly assumed that I am a male). My quote on modesty in Islam that appeared in the article is not simply an opinion, it is an Islamic rule for both men and women. (Quran 24:31)

Islam is a personal relationship with God so I agree with you that one should judge another. I also agree with you that no one should be forced or cover or be forced to do anything else. This is in accordance with Islam, which teaches us that there is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256). However, as we should respect those who don't choose to be modest we should also respect those who do. The private swimming was for women who cover and would otherwise not be able to swim in a pool. It was after hours so it did not interfere with anyone else's swimming time. The lifeguards were happy to work extra hours and make more money. The pool is regularly rented out after hours to people for private events, birthday parties, etc.

Lastly, I am American and have lived here my entire life. I wear western clothing also but enough to cover my body. I love and respect my body and that is why choose to cover it. It is incorrect to assume that because I am a practicing Muslim I must be from the Middle East. In fact, I have no family ties to the Middle East. I am studying to be a lawyer and have balanced my American and Muslim identities. It is ignorant of you to assume otherwise.

Thank you,
Asma Lori Haidri


9 posted on 11/13/2004 1:21:36 PM PST by ikhlas247
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To: ikhlas247

Are you saying that American women don't love and respect their bodies because they wear bathing suits and shorts?


10 posted on 11/13/2004 1:28:27 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

Not at all!


11 posted on 11/13/2004 1:33:00 PM PST by ikhlas247 (There's a difference between Islam and EXTREMIST Muslims)
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To: ikhlas247

ok, just wanted to clear that up.


12 posted on 11/13/2004 1:33:49 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: ikhlas247
Have you read,,"The Psychoanalytic Roots Of Islamic Terrorism"?
13 posted on 11/13/2004 1:37:45 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

Islam is not a religion...it is a cult. If I'm doing it right, maybe you can read this when you have a moment.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1277756/posts


14 posted on 11/13/2004 1:39:53 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Prodigal Son

BTTT


15 posted on 11/13/2004 1:44:04 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: pbrown

The article addresses some very important and horrific issues, but the author is discussing culture. Islam does not condone honor killings, rape, inequality of men and women, and the other injustices she points out in her article. Islam cannot be blamed for the misunderstanding and mispractice (or lack of practice) of what it teaches. If a drunk driver gets into an accident, do you blame the car or the driver? Don't blame Islam for the horrific actions of humans.


16 posted on 11/13/2004 1:53:29 PM PST by ikhlas247 (There's a difference between Islam and EXTREMIST Muslims)
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To: ikhlas247
Please, are you assuming that I am stupid?

Islam denies women the right to anything except rape and torture. As a woman you should be appalled at your own religion rather than defend it.

You, according to your religion are worth only half a man. And you find this acceptable?

17 posted on 11/13/2004 1:58:28 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: dennisw

"Do not go back after [my death] to being infidels who strike each other's necks."

"If two Muslims fight with their swords and kill each other, the place of both the killer and the killed is in Hell."

"A Muslim is the brother of a Muslim; he does not abandon him and he does not give him away."

-Prophet Muhammad

(hadith)


18 posted on 11/13/2004 1:58:41 PM PST by ikhlas247 (There's a difference between Islam and EXTREMIST Muslims)
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To: pbrown

http://www.islamfortoday.com/womensrightsbadawi.htm


19 posted on 11/13/2004 2:07:53 PM PST by ikhlas247 (There's a difference between Islam and EXTREMIST Muslims)
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To: ikhlas247

bump


20 posted on 11/13/2004 2:15:37 PM PST by xone
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To: ikhlas247
The Muslim command to kill Jews in order to emulate the Prophet. The treatment of the Jews by the Prophet has became the standard by which the classical Muslim jurists formulated their policy toward non-Muslims, as embodied in the Shari'a and in the jihad’s rules. Hence, when non-Muslims (primarily Hindus and Christians) were killed in Bali, Amrozi, the Indonesian terrorist, invoked the fate of the Jews in the oasis of Khaybar, perhaps confusing them with the mass slaughter of their co-religionists, the Qurayza. Although many of the Jews of Khaybar were killed in an unprovoked jihad campaign by Muhammad, those vanquished Khaybar Jews who surrendered were not killed, but were dispossessed and became exploited dhimmi tributaries, until, within a decade later, they were expelled by the "Rightly Guided" Caliph Umar.

As Mr. Akyol stated rightly, this was not exceptional at that time. The problem now is that such acts have been attributed to the Prophet Muhammad who is the model to be emulated by all Muslims. Hence, while even worse wars might have been perpetrated in the world by rulers long since forgotten, the acts and sayings of Muhammad concerning non-Muslims are still binding for over a billion Muslims today. To decry Dr. Bostom’s analyses, based on 13 centuries of Islamic teaching and writing, and accepted today in all Muslim countries, is almost surrealistic.

In fact, there is no way for us, in the 21st century, to know what really happened in a small Arabian oasis in the seventh century given the lack of contemporary evidence. But Mr. Akyol again contradicts himself by implying that the Qurayza’s punishment was justified, because they acted treacherously while of course there are no objective proofs for such accusations, which rest merely on the demonization of the victims. Moreover the problem does not concern only the Qurayza Jews but the Jews and Christians throughout the Hedjaz, who were, soon afterward dispossessed, and within a decade of Muhammad’s death, expelled, according to his professed (i.e., again, in the sira) deathbed wishes.      http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/2004/10/003675print.html

21 posted on 11/13/2004 2:16:45 PM PST by dennisw (G_D - against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: ikhlas247
Muhammad's examples are the foundation of Islam. Faithful Muhammedans are exhorted to copy the life of the prophet who is described as the most perfect man who ever lived. The "nice" Muslims are schizophrenics in denial of the violent passages in Koran and Hadith which exposit the violence and murderousness in Muhammad's life. All Muslims must emulate his exemplary life.

The Koran and Hadith are full of "Muhammad's examples". Muslims are called upon to emulate the "exemplary life" of this murderous prophet. The more civilized Muslims play a game of pretend where the beneficent examples are acknowledged and the existence of the murderous examples is denied. 

The Mecca period of his life was full of kindly preachings. The later, Medina period, is where Muhammad comes into his own as a blood lusting warlord. Spreading Islam by the sword while his band pillages and rapes it way across Arabia

_______________________________________________

I read as much as I could but I keep coming back to the essence of Islam. Islam is the monkey see, monkey do religion. It's built around Muhammad's "examples". When you understand this you understand Islam and Islam's terrorism.

The faithful Muslim is commanded to copy Muhammad's life. This is the most important fact in Islam. They view Muhammad as the most perfect man who ever lived, whose "exemplary" life must be emulated. The nice and moderate Muslims ignore, deny, minimize the latter part of Muhammad's life in Medina where he preached Jihad and was a murderous warlord bent on Islam's expansion. Conversion by the sword. The Jihadist Muslims are intent on copying this murderous part of Muhammad's life which has inspired many Koran verses. The later Medina verses (violent) are theologically superior to any Meccan verses (peaceful) when there is a contradiction.

The nice and moderate Muslims just want to think about the Meccan verses in the Koran which preach high ideals. From when Muhammad lived in Mecca and only got 100 followers in 13 years of preaching. Muhammad turned to Medina, turned to Jihad, got more followers, engaged in bloody conquest with 20% of all booty going to him. And the rest is history and misery.

22 posted on 11/13/2004 2:20:30 PM PST by dennisw (G_D - against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: ikhlas247
It looks pretty in print, but it's not the reality of Islam. Let the Muslim women go outside in several muslim countries without being covered from head to toe, we'll see what happens to them in reality.

Don't try to snow me with your rhetoric.

23 posted on 11/13/2004 2:25:19 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: ikhlas247

Try this on for size. Your Koran.http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes5.html#women


24 posted on 11/13/2004 2:30:00 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: ikhlas247
This is what your koran has to say about women.

You take that crap you try to foster as a religion and put it somewhere else.

American women aren't that stupid.

25 posted on 11/13/2004 2:32:14 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: MortMan
So, even though he broke his soldier's oath to defend his country - since it does not allow him to pick and choose his enemy to fight - the EU's civil rights rules let him go scot free? If this works, then the EU has cut its own throat.

He doesn't consider the United Kingdom "his country" -- he is a British subject, yes, but in reality he just lives there and reaps the benefit.

26 posted on 11/13/2004 2:32:56 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: ikhlas247
Tabari IX:113

"Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an".

27 posted on 11/13/2004 2:44:18 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

You can keep your cult named islam.


28 posted on 11/13/2004 2:45:33 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: ikhlas247
Are you a convert -- Your middle name is Lori.

It's easy to sing the praises of Islam while living in a non-Islamic land. You can practice your personal brand of religion without fear of the authorities or even your own family for deviating from what is considered "correct" belief.

Frankly, if you take your religion seriously, I don't see why you would want to live with a bunch of contemptible pork-eating, beer-swilling infidels, unless you see yourself as a soldier of Islam, working for the Islamization of this nation and ultimately the world. I find it amusing that a pious Muslim is studing law in the U.S. -- whose law? Also, do you plan to use American law to undermine this country, very much like the leftists of the ACLU and their ilk have been doing for years?

29 posted on 11/13/2004 2:46:39 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Prodigal Son

GITMO!


30 posted on 11/13/2004 2:47:26 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: Siamese Princess

AMEN!


31 posted on 11/13/2004 2:50:25 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: ikhlas247

muslims don't go to hell if they kill a Christian or a Jew, right? After all, according to all one-billion of you, we are just dogs, or pigs.


32 posted on 11/13/2004 2:50:39 PM PST by hardhead (Liberty Watch - http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/liberty-watch)
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To: ikhlas247
Oh, and by the way, Mohammad was a pedophile, marrying a nine year old little girl proves it.
33 posted on 11/13/2004 2:54:59 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Prodigal Son

Sheesh...

No Comment


34 posted on 11/13/2004 2:56:23 PM PST by ApesForEvolution ("We trust [RINO-BORKING-ABORTER] Sen. Arlen spRectum's word" - "IF spRectum gets the Chair, IF")
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To: pbrown
I've got your Muhammad right here.
35 posted on 11/13/2004 2:58:03 PM PST by ApesForEvolution ("We trust [RINO-BORKING-ABORTER] Sen. Arlen spRectum's word" - "IF spRectum gets the Chair, IF")
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To: pbrown
Oh, and by the way, Mohammad was a pedophile, marrying a nine year old little girl proves it.

No, she was six -- the marriage was consummated when she was nine.

36 posted on 11/13/2004 3:01:24 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Siamese Princess
What a sicko. And they follow him. Unbelievable.
37 posted on 11/13/2004 3:03:12 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Prodigal Son
A very odd transformation for the word that used to be called "cowardice". Don't even go there. These mental giants volunteered. For the military.

D'OH!

38 posted on 11/13/2004 3:06:28 PM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.)
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To: ApesForEvolution

Thanks, I added it to my favorites list. islam is not a religion, it is a blood thirsty cult.


39 posted on 11/13/2004 3:07:09 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

You should be ashamed of your disgusting ignorant bigotry. ikhlas247 politely explained the reasoning behind what was done at the pool, and then you go off on a string of mocking insults and cheap shots at her, failing to distinguish between a moderate Muslim and an extremist. There is a huge difference between the two, and your tagline is a load of baloney. This is the United States, where freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution.

Are you saying you want to drive all muslims into the sea, or just force them to drink from separate water fountains?

BTW, I know many conservative Christians who wouldn't let their kids go in mixed groups to the beach or pool, who don't wear skimpy swimsuits. If they rented a pool after hours for an all-female or all-male teen swim, would you snottily denigrate them, too?


40 posted on 11/13/2004 3:15:40 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: pbrown
What a sicko. And they follow him. Unbelievable.

Serge Trifkovic, writing in Chronicles magazine in 1999 (!), observed that Muhammed was part Charles Manson, part John Gotti -- in other words, a psychopathic mass murderer and despot. Muhammed is also considered to be the model for all Muslims to seek to emulate. Think about a religion that holds a psychopathic mass murderer and despot as its ideal man. It explains much, doesn't it?

41 posted on 11/13/2004 3:20:24 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: ikhlas247

There are a small clique of barking fools here who have no concept of freedom of religion, who cannot distinguish between terrorist zealots and the many quiet, devout, moderate muslims. They scream for moderate muslims to speak out against terrorism, yet as soon as someone actually does that, that person gets viciously attacked. And then they wonder why none speak out.

Please ignore them and know that they are not representative, just noisy yappers.


42 posted on 11/13/2004 3:21:28 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Be ashamed? Are you for real?

You tell that I should be ashamed for telling her exactly 'WHAT' her religion really is?

I should not be angry with muslims flying planes into buildings and Americans faced with the choice of being burned alive or jumping to their deaths?

I should be ashamed when muslims fly planes into the Pentagon, killing innocent people?

Ashamed, for the passengers in Pennsylvania taking their fate into their own hands as the muslim terrorist were cutting their throats.

I should be ashamed for the beheadings in Iraq?

I could go on and on about muslims and their peaceful religion. It is not racism...it is the truth. Something you seem to be in denial of.

Moderate muslims.....yeah, I know them, they wink their approval of the terrorist that they don't have the guts to do themselves.

Moderate Muslims......you're kidding, right?

43 posted on 11/13/2004 3:24:52 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

An ugly clanging gong...


44 posted on 11/13/2004 3:26:38 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Politely explained....yes, and I'm sure the terrorist politely explained to the people on the high-jacked airplanes what they were doing as they slit their throats.
45 posted on 11/13/2004 3:27:56 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: dennisw
What a whopper of a lie.

Not really. Muslims are only allowed to fight other Muslims when they are fighting for Muslims. They are always allowed to make war on infidels.

Essentially, what this soldier wants is to get Britain to legally recognize Islamic Chauvanism (the idea that Muslims are better than everyone else).

46 posted on 11/13/2004 3:28:26 PM PST by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: pbrown

You answer my questions and I'll AGAIN answer yours.


47 posted on 11/13/2004 3:36:05 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
I take it you're a man, Only then could you be so arrogant about the positions of women.

As a man, you have no idea what the very idea of a Christian woman thinks about the difference between the religions of Christiany and Islam. What the ramifications are to Christiane women should the radical islamofacists means to me.

You are a man....you are safe. Don't you dare to preach to me about islam....the peaceful religion.

48 posted on 11/13/2004 3:42:31 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
There are a small clique of barking fools here who have no concept of freedom of religion, who cannot distinguish between terrorist zealots and the many quiet, devout, moderate muslims. They scream for moderate muslims to speak out against terrorism, yet as soon as someone actually does that, that person gets viciously attacked. And then they wonder why none speak out.

"Moderate" Muslims should more accurately be called "moderately" Muslim -- they either ignore or are ignorant of at least parts of their faith.

"Moderate" Muslims will quote Muhammed from the early days of his preaching career, when he advocated peace, love and understanding with non-Muslims; not surprisingly, Muslims were small, weak and few in number at the time. He grew more belligerant as Muslims grew in numbers and power. You just can't get around that.

To be fair, Christian rulers at the time committed all kinds of acts that are not acceptable today, but that's the point -- to a Christian, what was acceptable in the 7th century may not be today (slavery being a example). Traditional Muslims are still mentally stuck in the early middle ages.

49 posted on 11/13/2004 3:47:15 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: pbrown

You're avoiding my questions, as expected. If as a male I don't understand a woman's view, then likewise as a non-Muslim you don't understand a moderate Muslim's point of view? Hmmm, copout reasoning doesn't hold up well, does it?

Bottom line, there is a huge difference between moderate muslims and terrorist supporting fanatics. You fail to recognize this, so what exactly is the solution you are advocating? Chase all Muslims into the sea, force them to wear yellow crescents, or just force them to drink from separate water fountains? What is your solution? Be clear.

Talk like a bigot and expect to be called on it.


50 posted on 11/13/2004 3:51:19 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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