What's Really Behind the Episcopal Controversy (Vanity)

August 6, 2003 | Miss Marple

[twigs]

You are right that they probably shouldn't be that wealthy. ... We don't need material things

I believe that concentration of wealth (and power too) in any form by anyone is always a prelude to disaster for the society. Even the church. Man is inherently sinful and we are called on by St. Paul to hold one another to account. We can't do that when such wealth and power is held at the top. I have always believed that one reason the Vikings were so successful in their raids of Europe in the 8th and 9th centuries is that they discovered that the monasteries held so much of Europe's wealth. It made raiding relatively easy... just head for the cross and voila, there's the riches.

I also think sometimes God uses these situations to bring his Church back to Him. While I don't like the thought of evil groups getting ahold of these resources, I am encouraged that God is very much in control and uses these things to purge us.

[Grampa Dave]

It is the money that each church and diocese represents, the power of the pulpit to preach their perverted message, the prestige of being called a priest/bishop instead of being called a pervert, and the great pay for a few hours per week.

In our Diocese, the local churches are owned by the Diocese. Yet, we are responsible for any maintenance, renovation and major upkeep. We pay the full salaries of our priest, assistant priest, deacon, secretaries and sextons.

We are taxed with an assessment of 30+% off the top of our monthly income less the salaries of the priests and any major maintenance/repair/renovation. That 30+% goes to the Bishop. His expenses and the expenses of the Diocese are paid for by us. A portion goes to the National Church.

One of the churches in the Diocese had a falling out with a previous Bishop. Inspite of them buying the property, building, maintaining and expanding their church at their own expense, they were legally told that they had zero rights to that church, its buildings and properties. All of it belonged to the Diocese under the control of the Bishop.

The total package for a new curate, a priest in training, from a seminary is about $60,000+. The base salary is not that great. However, we pay for their social security, and they have a good health plan, great retirement plan and a non taxable housing allowance.

We still have control over hiring a priest, priest in training or a deacon. The Methodist Church doesn't. The Methodist Church is infected with lesbian ministers. The local church has no control over who is their minister. They seem to start out with a mild mannered one and rachet up the scale re hostility and open heterophobia actions and words. They get their churches involved in all types of left wing social endeavors like dealing with the so called homeless. Their church halls are turned into day care centers for the so called homeless. Then members can't use these halls for tradition church functions during the week.

Last but not least, most of these perverts hiding as ministers/priests don't believe in God, the Birth and life Jesus. Nor do they believe in the resurrection. Their sermons are not from the bible except for quotes to validate their leftist homosexual agendas.

[Redleg Duke]

I beg to differ with you, Sir, but unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church, like all other churches, is administered by humans and over the years, human error has become a part of the morals and dogma of that institution.

To state that "Bad Catholics" are "Protestants" is simplistic and inflamitory. When an organization bans the question "Why", its authority and justification is automatically diminished.

The Roman Catholic Church may not have "openly gay" priests and bishops and archbishops, etc., but remember, God sees all, so they while may hide their sins and hypocracy from the mortals, but they are "openly gay" to God.

[MinuteGal]

You're spot on, Jane. Always follow the money trail, trite but true.

Add radical obsession to this witch's brew of greed and avarice.

Ordinary folk (us) tend to be laid back, a mite complacent, just going about our ordinary lives, too often naively depending on the hope that right always prevails.

On the other hand, radical leftists, revolutionaries, feminazis, gays, whoever, devote their lives and sacrifice their pocketbooks to further their causes. They never lose sight of their goals. They never rest.

As an example, a mere handful of scholarly radical communists pounding out ideology and propaganda at desks defeated the might of the czar, his wealth and his vast armies.

A more current example is the gay movement. The gays comprise a drop in the bucket of our population. Yet they are successfully infiltrating, destroying, neutralizing or controlling the media, entertainment, historic institutions (Boy Scouts, the legal system, etal), and, of course, established religion. They never take their eye off the ball, craftily selecting major ripe targets to infiltrate and revolutionize.

As in the old Russian Empire, those lusting for money and power don't need numbers to effect a successful revolution. They only need some financing and a complacent or uneducated populace to achieve their goals.

The attainment of money and power says it all. Bishop Robinson, who will sacrifice his Church to attain both, is an example. Let's pray his obsessed, radical revolution will slowly crumble as it did in Russia.

What benefits a man if he attains the whole world, but loses his soul?

Leni

[Jalapeno]

And don forget "everything you do is alright".

[livius]

The answer is money.

I agree. Not only is it money, however, it's institutional power and legitimacy. Gays have, essentially, taken over the structure and name of the Episcopal Church, thereby redefining it and making it theirs.

Somebody on another thread asked why gays didn't start their own church, if they really felt that way about it, but that person missed the whole point of what the gay political structure (and the many non-gay liberals behind it) really wanted.

[AppyPappy]

That is NOT what Corinthians says!

Just did a search and found nothing of the sort.

[Fifth Business]

You could be right.

Personally, I think they are attracted to churches where there is high-liturgy, attention to aesthetics, and costume dress-up on Sundays.

[nmh]

"I have noticed that the gays are not lobbying in the Southern Baptists, nor in the Church of Christ, nor in the Assemblies of God."

Gays wouldn't even dream of approaching Baptists. That group is Biblically aligned. Also Baptists are also Biblically aligned when it comes to their churches - meaning that yes, each is INDIVIDUALLY operated and run just as the Bible dictates. There should be NO "main" head as in other Protestant denominations or the Catholic church with the pope heading that church. The Bible mentions the different church but they are INDEPENDENT of one another. Sure they may have had joint meetings as in the SBC (SOuthern Baptist Convention) however they are not excommunicated if they don't agree on issues and are NOT obligated to other churches within that denomination.

I think Lord Action, a Catholic, has it right, "Asolute power corrupts absolutely..." . We are seeing this happen through UNITING the different churches in a denomination based on UNBiblical teachings who wish to echo the ever lowering social mores to please fallible mortals while forgeting that God's Word doesn't evolve.

[windcliff]

ping

[irish guard]

>>>>>Well, the Old Testament is full of instances where the chosen people fell away, were chastised, returned to God, were blessed, fell away, were chastised... etc....ad nauseam. I don't think Jewish people have any monopoly on displeasing God.<<<<<<

No, no....not my point at all....my fault for the digression into Jewish issues. I meant that the Jews who control Hollywood are the unwitting accomplices of disgusting organizations like NAMBLA, who want to advance an agenda and Hollywood is doing more than its part to glamorize homosexuality right now. All of this fits like a hand in a rubber glove to NAMBLA's and other activist homosexual organizational goals.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Stand-by, I am doing the research again. They don't call it re-search for nothing...

[bluebunny]

Don't kid yourself. The homosexual lobby has never been at a loss for funds. What they covet is respectability, which mainline denominations still possess a veneer of (undeservedly so). No...it's a wheat and chaff issue.

I agree. Money and power is partly the reason but the primary reason is what you have said. They need to find a church that says GAY IS OK. Religion has been the last barrier to their acceptance. They've now found one.

[longtermmemmory]

All future bequests will now have morality clauses.

You hit the nail on the head with the money. (same reason they don't go and form their own boy scouts.) It is not the one homosexual priest becoming a bishop, its the other homosexual priests pushing him from behind. This was a done deal looooong before the vote.

They are counting on the backlash being nothing more than words. I hope, regardless of the silver involved, that the people back their objections with action.

[Woahhs]

Also Baptists are also Biblically aligned when it comes to their churches

Show me a Baptist Elder.

[AppyPappy]

I meant that the Jews who control Hollywood are the unwitting accomplices of disgusting organizations like NAMBLA, who want to advance an agenda and Hollywood is doing more than its part to glamorize homosexuality right now.

Is StormFront down or something?

The Jews that control Hollywood. Sheesh.

[TexanToTheCore]

"They are the biggest spenders, not necessarily the wealthiest. They are heavier smokers, drinkers and users of drugs."

Their incomes are slightly less than average, their median lifespan with Aids is 38, without Aids, 42 (NHS figures).

[AppyPappy]

Source please.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Wouldn't that be a Deacon?

[secret garden]

Ping to read later.