Are Episcopalians Still a Church? A Lutheran theologian/journalist examines Robinson confirmation

Christianity Today ^ | 8/7/03 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

[TaxRelief]

I believe there is a legal difference between a group trying to take their property when they leave a parent organization, and a parent organization keeping their property when they kick out a division. Rightful ownership tends to go in the favor of the parent group.

[Aquinasfan]

Today, the Lutheran World Federation REJECTED a definition of marriage as between one man and one woman!

Got link?

[sydney smith]

My point is that there are other ways to further the worldwide mission and ministry for Christ. There other large, active protestant churches(Lutheran, Baptist,etc.). My question again: why remain an episcopalian?

[Aquinasfan]

A professor at ZooMass once told a friend of mine, off the record, that he considered himself, "a guerilla operating behind enemy lines."

I don't think that he is part of a formal conspiracy. Rather, those who devote their lives to subverting what is good and natural are simply following their irrational ideology to its 'logical' conclusion.

[Monitor]

Today, the Lutheran World Federation REJECTED a definition of marriage as between one man and one woman!

Do you have a link to that information? I looked, but couldn't find anything.

[the infidel]

The following US Lutheran bodies are not members or supporters of LWF:

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Evangelical Lutheran Synod (aka, "The Norwegians")

There are also smaller splinter synods like Church of the Lutheran Confession and Lutheran Conference of Confessional Fellowship who think LCMS, WELS, and ELS are liberal. CLC, LCCF, and others do not participate in any "unionism" with other bodies -- especially as liberal as LWF.

I believe ELCA is the only significant (size-wise) American body participating in LWF.

[Calpernia]

>>>>The above is an example of copying one of their tactics. The funny thing is, I can do it, but it doesn't feel like I'm doing the right thing, somehow.


That names for labeling is funny! Of course you don't feel it is right. It is more than likely not your nature to call others names.

The counter legal action though, YES! This stops them from creating legal precidents (sp?). Also gives them more of a barrier in the legal bullying.

As soon as I can find a lawyer that wants to this (grassroots type of effort), then I will take the next step to set up the funding.

[ThomasMore]

Is the Episcopal Church USA still a church

Try Christian Church. I don't believe so.

[loftyheights]

I'm pleased to say that the author of this wonderful piece, Uwe Siemon-Netto, is a member of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. He nails the issue with truth and humor. Sadly, many in the LC-MS would like closer church relations, perhaps even church fellowship, with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, which basically is in altar and pulpit fellowship with the Episcopalians. We shall see what the LC-MS president has to say about this whole issue. Should be interesting.

[Redleg Duke]

He Nails It Solidly!

As a Lutheran, concerned about the implosion of the ELCA, I am prepared to leave with the rest to form a Lutheran Church based on scripture and not on liberation theology.

I've worshiped in School Auditoriums and Garages, and as He said, "Wherever two or more of you are gathered in My Name, there I will be!"

[TaxRelief]

"Today, the Lutheran World Federation REJECTED a definition of marriage as between one man and one woman?" Didn't they finish their Assembly on July 31?

Here is the press release information:

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The (Assembly) Message commits LWF members to remove barriers that exclude people from "participating fully in the life that God envisions for all." These barriers include gender, race, ethnicity, class, nationality, caste, sexual orientation, age and physical/mental condition. The Assembly also committed itself to supporting basic human rights for indigenous peoples. In reference to the visa issue, the Assembly singled out the Dalit people of India, who were among those denied entry to Canada.

The Message pledges members to enrich the church’s healing ministries by addressing HIV/AIDS, violence and poverty. "Diakonia," or the servant ministries of the church, are put forth as a fundamental dimension of the church’s life and part of its holistic healing ministry.
Justice and healing in families is addressed in the Assembly Message and provoked lively discussion on the floor of the Assembly on the language around issues of human sexuality and the definition of "family."

The Message encourages respectful dialogue on marriage, family and human sexuality "in a manner appropriate to the needs of each member church." It also addresses the experience of "spiritual poverty" within families and encourages resources for addressing these needs.

---

From: http://www.lwf-assembly.org/News-038-EN.html

The actual report is here (in pdf form): http://www.lwf-assembly.org/PDFs/LWF_Assembly_Message.pdf

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Yes, it does look like their "path of pacifism" has put them at the top of the proverbial slippery slope.

[rhema]

[utahagen]

What?! Is this a joke? What is the "Lutheran World Federation"? Please, someone, fill me in.

[the infidel]

We shall see what the LC-MS president has to say about this whole issue. Should be interesting.

It's pretty surprising, at least to me.

As President of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, I am profoundly saddened and deeply disturbed by the decision of the Episcopal Church U.S.A. to give its approval to the election of an openly homosexual bishop.

While it is clear from God’s Word that His forgiving love in Jesus Christ is constant for all people, this action nevertheless constitutes a momentous break from the Christian Church’s 2000 year long understanding of what the Holy Scriptures teach about homosexual behavior as contrary to God’s will and the biblical qualifications for holding the pastoral office.

As many have already observed, this historic decision will be deeply divisive not only in the Episcopal Church itself, but also in the wider Anglican Communion, and it will undoubtedly provoke controversy throughout all of Christendom.

It is my sincere hope that the Episcopal Church U.S.A. would reconsider their decision in the light of the biblical understanding of human sexuality and the qualifications for the pastoral office. It is my fervent prayer that God the Holy Spirit will guide and sustain our brothers and sisters in Christ in the Episcopal Church U.S.A. as they wrestle with the implications of this action in the months and years to come.
source

Maybe we can get him to take a stronger stand about pastors and congregations engaging in unionism with ELCA and other non-Lutheran sects.

[the infidel]

LWF may as well be called "Liberal World Federation." LWF is an alliance of (very) liberal churches who retain the name "Lutheran" in their synodical names despite rejection of the core doctrines of the Reformation and historic Christianity.

Look up their site on the internet. You'll find a lot about justice, human rights, "action plans" for certain diseases, ecumenical relations, etc. You probably won't find much about Christ.

[realpatriot]

See #71. Thank you Taxrelief.

[realpatriot]

See post #71, Thank you TaxRelief.

[infowarrior]

And what followed, that which we deal with today... Still, it can only be construed as yet another "sign of the times"...

the infowarrior

[TaxRelief]

A little birdie mentioned that you were looking for Anglican Links. Here's a good place to start.

[TaxRelief]

This forum is for frustrated Episcopalians:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apostasy/