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Help with Debate ^ | 8/11/2003 | Armymarinemom

Posted on 08/11/2003 2:05:08 PM PDT by armymarinemom

I need help fast. I have agreed to debate a spokesman for the group Bring them Home Now for CNN tomorrow. You can see from the links on their website who these people are associated with. I need input from everyone because to be honest I'm scared to death!
Their spokesman is prior special forces who has a son in Iraq. This smacks a lot like Veterans for Peace.

TOPICS: War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
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1 posted on 08/11/2003 2:05:08 PM PDT by armymarinemom
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To: soccer8
2 posted on 08/11/2003 2:07:55 PM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: armymarinemom
DASCHLE IN February 1998 (under a Democrat President):

"If not, it's back to business. It is the use of force. It is a swift response militarily and by whatever other means may be necessary." "...if nothing changes, the use of force at some point would be inevitable."

DASCHLE IN September 2002 (under a Republican President):

"What has changed over the course of the last 10 years that brings this country to the belief that it has to act in a pre-emptive fashion?"

3 posted on 08/11/2003 2:11:26 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: armymarinemom
No one seems to remember what Bill Clinton said in 1998, before he failed to follow through with his obligations of enforcing the Gulf War cease-fire:

"[Saddam Hussein's] regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region, and the security of all the rest of us," Bill Clinton said in February 1998. "Some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal. Let there be no doubt, we are prepared to act."

"I know the people we may call upon in uniform are ready. The American people have to be ready as well."

4 posted on 08/11/2003 2:13:00 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: SunStar

New York Post ^ | 8/03/03 | NILES LATHEM

Posted on 08/03/2003 7:49 AM PDT by kattracks

August 3, 2003 -- WASHINGTON - Daily attacks on U.S. soldiers, infiltration of terrorists, and mischief-making by Iran and Syria have dominated the postwar headlines over the last two months - creating an image of a quagmire in the making.

But the guerrilla war is only a part of the story of what's taking place in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein, according to administration officials and outside experts.

Quietly and steadily, U.S. and coalition forces and the civilian administration have made real progress in rebuilding the Iraqi nation - a society, an economy and an infrastructure shattered by three decades of tyranny, war, neglect and corruption

In just two months, 100 independent newspapers have started, garbage is regularly picked up off the streets, oil fields are running, banks are open and a vast majority of Iraqi university students have finished their final exams.

The humanitarian crisis many experts predicted has been averted.

"Although we might get the impression that our involvement over there is tottering on the edge of failure, the fact is that in two months, we have brought Iraq to a point in recovery that Germany, Italy and Japan after World War II didn't reach until after a year and a half," said Cmdr. Chris Isleib, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority.

Based on interviews with coalition authorites and experts, here's The Post's report card of the progress in Iraq.






Critics of the Bush administration's war policy warned that a post-Saddam Iraq would explode into religious and ethnic tensions and would eventually become the Middle East version of the Balkans.

That has not happened.

Efforts to transition from coalition occupation to a new democratic government have been quicker and more efficient than in Afghanistan or the former Yugoslavia.

A governing council was formed earlier this month and on Tuesday, it announced that the presidency would rotate among a nine-member leadership committee.

Things are progressing so well that Paul Bremer, chief civilian administrator in Iraq, said in Baghdad last week, "It is not unrealistic to think that we could possibly have general elections by mid-2004, and that is when our work here will be done."

Grade A

"The work being done to form a new government was clearly the most impressive thing we saw and is proceeding much more efficiently than anyone imagined it would," said Bethsheba Crocker, part of a outside team invited to tour Iraq.



BASIC health services have been restored to 90 percent of their prewar levels in the north, 80 percent in the south and 75 percent in Baghdad.

All 240 hospitals and 1,200 outpatient clinics are now open. The coalition says that 3,000 tons of medical supplies have been shipped into Iraq in the last 50 days.

United Arab Emirates, Italy and Japan are working to refurbish hospitals damaged by Saddam's death squads during the war, and a new state-of-the-art outpatient clinic opened in Baghdad's al-Mansur district last week.

But Iraq's health-care situation is one of the most dire in the Middle East. Decades of corruption and mismanagement have left child- mortality rates and life expectancies at record poor levels.

Over the next six months, the coalition will earmark $210 million to be spent by the Ministry of Health. By contrast, Saddam only spent $20 million on health-care services in Iraq in 2002.


Grade A-


"The coalition has done a good job getting the health-care system back to prewar levels...Their next challenge will be to bring this system back to pre-sanctions levels and that will take more time and resources," said Johanna Mendelson Forman, of the U.N. Foundation.



The widespread food crisis that experts predicted for Iraq before the war did not materialize.

Despite attacks by Saddam's goon squads on food-distribution centers in an effort to create another Somalia, the overall system is up and running - and getting food to the Iraqi people.

The Pentagon says 1.2 million metric tons of food has entered Iraq since the end of the war and another 2.2 million metric tons will arrive by the end of October.

The Coalition Provision Authority has also been purchasing local harvests, including 450,000 metric tons of Iraqi wheat and more than 300,000 metric tons of Iraqi barley to keep Iraq's fragile agriculture system intact.


Grade A

"There is plenty of food in the country," said World Food Program spokesman Antonia Paradela.



The biggest surprise and the biggest problem facing coalition forces after security.

Iraq's electrical infrastructure was in poor shape after years of neglect before the war.

Now the power grid is being sabotaged almost daily by Saddam's goon squads - adding to the misery of the Iraqi people and preventing the orderly flow of water, which depends on electricity for its pumping stations.

The coalition has made great efforts in recent weeks to improve the situation - getting 39,000 electrical workers back on the job and budgeting $294 million through December to make improvements. Water has been flowing from Kuwait for weeks giving Iraqis the supplies they need.

The coalition has also budgeted an additional $73 million through December for water and sewer projects.

Grade C


"We are not quite back at prewar levels, but we are hoping we will be in a relatively small number of weeks," said Andy Bearpack, director of operations and infrastructure for the Coalition Provisional Authority.



THE coalition has hired and is training a force of 34,000 Iraqi policemen patrolling in 58 of 89 Iraqi cities and will have 61,000 by the end of the year, as well as a civil-defense force of 7,000.

There are already 1,000 traffic police, 1,000 customs inspectors and 1,000 guards at key installations, according to recent figures released by Bernard Kerik, the former New York police commissioner in charge of rebuilding Iraq's security.

The Iraqi army and a border-patrol force are now being reconstituted and about 11,000 people will soon be trained.

But the deaths of American soldiers in postwar combat and what is now clearly an organized, preplanned campaign by Saddam's Ba'ath Party loyalists to sabotage Iraq's electricity and water supplies is the No. 1 problem facing the coalition rebuilding efforts.

Pentagon officials have noted that the guerrilla war is mostly centered in the so-called Sunni triangle around Baghdad and Tikrit, where support for Saddam was the strongest, while other areas in the south, north and west are relatively tranquil.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other officials also noted that the 148,000 U.S. troops are arresting an average of 200 Ba'ath Party thugs a day, have seized more than 8,200 tons of ammunition, captured or killed 38 of the 55 most-wanted Iraqi regime figures, and have about 6,000 lower-level Ba'ath leaders in custody.

"Fighting is still going on, which slows our other efforts and creates fear and grief for Americans and Iraqis both. But it won't last," said Cmdr. Chris Isleib, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority.


Grade C


"The war plan clearly assumed a more benign postwar environment. The coalition did not have the resources needed, and it is still scrambling to catch up," said James Dobbins, director of the International Security and Defense Policy Center.



In disastrous shape before the war, the conditions are even more dire now.

The coalition estimated that more than 50 percent of the population was unemployed before the war.

Those numbers have grown with the dissolution of the Iraqi military and ministries and war damage to many businesses.

Even if oil production is restored to pre-sanctions levels, the revenues will have to support an Iraqi population that has tripled since the Gulf War in 1991.


Massive efforts are under way to repair the damage and transition from a Stalinist welfare state to a more vibrant free-market economy. But they have been hampered by the ongoing security crisis.

Recent progress includes independence of Iraq's central bank and the establishment of a trading bank to guarantee payment for imported goods.

A new Iraqi currency will soon be introduced, giving the country the first single currency in its modern history, and efforts are under way in the governing council to rewrite ownership laws.

But the slow pace of economic recovery has created concern inside the Bush administration, which is considering tapping an expert to oversee efforts to attract foreign investment and aid as well as restructure Iraq's debt, which has climbed to $28 billion, the largest debt per capita in human history.

Grade B

"The Coalition Provisional Authority needs to be very creative in the ways it handles the foreign debt, and it especially needs to be creative in the way it handles the oil revenues to make sure it reaches the Iraqi people," said Barton, of the CSIS team.



All of Iraq's universities are open, and a majority of Iraqi students were able to complete final exams that had been delayed during the war.

The coalition has already finished refurbishing 584 of the 1,000 Iraqi schools on its target list for reconstruction by September.

Many schools were damaged by the Ba'ath Party militias during the war and some later destroyed by looters.

The coalition expects half of the country's schools to reopen in September, but many parents say they won't send their children back to school until the streets are safer.

The coalition plans to provide new textbooks to most schools that will be devoid of Ba'athist and pro-Saddam ideology.


Grade B


"Yes, the university students finished their exams, but under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. The university I saw in Basra was indeed open, but there were packs of dogs roaming around, furniture was stripped, there were no blackboards," said Frank Barton, one of the Center for Strategic and International Studies experts invited by the Pentagon to tour Iraq.



One of the big success stories of the war was the military's Special Forces operations to seize control of Iraq's valuable oil fields and prevent Saddam from destroying them.

The fields are now up and running, and the land mines have been removed from the vital southern port of Um Qasar.

Iraq is now once again on the world oil market, giving the strife-torn country the future economic capability to rebuild its shattered economy.

But the Pentagon-organized team that visited Iraq found that the infrastructure was more badly damaged and neglected than the coalition had anticipated in its prewar planning and that sabotage and the ongoing electricity woes have been creating problems.

As a result, only 1.3 million barrels of oil a day are being pumped from the world's second-largest oil reserves.

That's far short of the 2.5 million barrels a day that were being pumped before Operation Iraqi Freedom and the 3.5 million barrels a day that were being produced before the Persian Gulf War in 1991.


Grade B


"I think it came as a surprise to everyone just how badly degraded the oil infrastructure was and how much of an effort it will take to get this vital part of Iraq's economy fully functioning again," Crocker said.


With Post Wire Services

5 posted on 08/11/2003 2:14:36 PM PDT by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: armymarinemom
I am so disgusted -- I looked at their website and this totally dishonors my brother who is in Iraq and all the soldiers who are serving with them. The whiny mom who complained that her son was there and had lost 40 lbs. but didn't complain -- it's HIS LIFE!!! Thank God for me like him who serve!! As for him having no battlefield experience, well where does she think he'd get that besides in a war! ARGH!! ** Off soapbox **
6 posted on 08/11/2003 2:17:49 PM PDT by StarCMC
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To: armymarinemom; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Johnny Gage
Tonk and Johnny, our FRiend needs a mega-ping!

Mom, this question has been debated in previous threads, around the time the 'bring them home' sentiment first showed up in the national media...the most succinct comments made centered around 2 points:

1) Osama Bin Laden was involved with Farrah-Aidid in Somalia, and was emboldened in his actions against the U.S. when he saw how we walked away from there after the 'Black Hawk Down' incident. When you let a bully intimidate you, you lose.

2) Many of the mass graves we've been finding in Iraq contain the remains of Iraqis who, having heeded our call to rebel in 1990/91, rose up against Saddam Hussein. We left them without support with tragic results.

I'm sure once this plea gets pinged, you'll receive a whole lot more input. I just hope the CNN people treat you with respect as you make your points...

7 posted on 08/11/2003 2:19:58 PM PDT by HiJinx (The Right person, in the Right place, at the Right do His work.)
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To: armymarinemom
These people are a commie front group.

The guy behind it Stan Goff, "a member of the Speakers & Organizers Bureau of the Southern Peace Research and Education Center, the Institute for Southern Studies:" website here He is supposedly a former masters sargeant.

You can see who his friends are at the link above or this s one here

In a word, the usual commie traitors who are upsetting the families of our soldiers for the same treasonous reasons they have always had.

Their whole reason for existence is to cynically manipulate the worried families of armed forces members to further their own extreme left agenda.

8 posted on 08/11/2003 2:21:14 PM PDT by pierrem15
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To: armymarinemom
Their site links "Veterans for Peace." They should be sued for false advertising.

Sorry about the formatting errors on the last post, I'm so angry I can hardly type.

9 posted on 08/11/2003 2:23:38 PM PDT by pierrem15
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To: armymarinemom
I have agreed to debate a spokesman for the group

Looks like you jumped before you looked.

10 posted on 08/11/2003 2:28:13 PM PDT by verity
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To: armymarinemom
Here are some good links.
11 posted on 08/11/2003 2:29:16 PM PDT by LibertyJihad
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To: armymarinemom
Nasty bunch, aren't they.

Don't be nervous, you'll do fine if you remember that if we leave with our job unfinished, those who died, will have died in vain. To leave now, because of fear would be immoral. We have invaded Iraq for good reason and now our job is to leave it better than we found it. It's what Americans do.

This is not a "Vietnam", because it is not a political war. It is, however, a war of defense. To paraphrase John Dunn; America is not an island. Any injustice anywhere in the world, diminishes the US and threatens it as well. Your opponents should not ask why we are there, but why we and the British are the only ones that are.

Good Luck,

12 posted on 08/11/2003 2:37:38 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: armymarinemom
Don't get defensive or angry at any time, nor respond to any personal attack if one is made. Use humor to respond to the most egregious part of each rant and pretty much ignore the rest while you make a related point. Don't be afraid to take a moment to think. There's no way to win against the sophistry of the other guy's position--if he doesn't make a cogent point, you need not respond to it.

The absolutely best way to debate is to find voices on their side, such as Clinton's or Daschle's from years back, as cited above, saying what your side says now. They can't argue with that.

A rational case CAN STILL be made against our intervention in Iraq but by and large the peaceniks don't make it. You probably won't hear two truths in a row from your opponent. So relax, you really can't lose the debate if you are in control.
13 posted on 08/11/2003 2:58:43 PM PDT by ChemistCat (It's National I'm Being Discriminated Against By Someone Day.)
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To: armymarinemom; Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; LindaSOG; LaDivaLoca; bentfeather; Bethbg79; ...
"I need help fast. I have agreed to debate a spokesman for the group Bring them Home Now for CNN tomorrow."

URGENT PING for armymarinemom,
mother of 2 sons serving our country.

Please post your replies to armymarinemom
14 posted on 08/11/2003 3:05:39 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (THANK YOU TROOPS!)
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To: armymarinemom
I don't know if this will help, but if you can pull up pics of Saddam's victims, mass graves being unearthed, jubilant Iraquis, and testimony of Saddam's victims, you could do a slide show, or do an "overhead projector" style presentation.

The message could be something on the lines of, "God has blessed our country. We have the capability to help people. When devastation hits a country, we're there to help, whether it is an earthquake, floods, or other disasters. Besides the terrorist threat, lies millions of oppressed, frightened, empoverished human beings. God has given us the tools to fight oppression, we are duty bound to use them.

I don't know. Maybe you can find some kind of idea. Good luck!!!! Please let us know how it went :)
15 posted on 08/11/2003 3:09:57 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (I need a new tag line)
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To: armymarinemom
What is the name of the spokesman you will be debating? I am willing to search the net for information on this person so that you are well-armed. Please give me his name if you have it!
16 posted on 08/11/2003 3:10:39 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: armymarinemom

You have mail.
17 posted on 08/11/2003 3:11:41 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (fREE rEPUBLIC iS nOT aDDICTIVE, fREE rEPUBLIC iS nOT aDDICTIVE, fREE rEPUBLIC iS nOT aDDICTIVE, fREE)
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To: armymarinemom
From the linked site:

The truth is coming out. The American public was deceived by the Bush administration about the motivation for and intent of the invasion of Iraq...

The lies are coming out. One of the things that annoys me the most, is that they will never acknowledge the truth. The libs/dems are so very lost, and the mainstream media liberal press is nothing more than a getaway driver for the subversives who would undermine our Nation, culture, and way of life.

18 posted on 08/11/2003 3:13:35 PM PDT by Radix
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To: Diogenesis; yall
Email us your letters and photographs. Or, contact us through regular mail at:
Bring Them Home Now
P.O. Box 91233
Raleigh, NC 27675

Well now......from the above link. I'd say we all need to start looking up some of the GREAT pics posted by Dio and start SENDING THEM. They do, after all, request our input.

19 posted on 08/11/2003 3:14:00 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (fREE rEPUBLIC iS nOT aDDICTIVE, fREE rEPUBLIC iS nOT aDDICTIVE, fREE rEPUBLIC iS nOT aDDICTIVE, fREE)
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To: armymarinemom
Mom, I got this PING'ed to me. It ought to give you some firepower.

Good Hunting!

20 posted on 08/11/2003 3:16:32 PM PDT by Old Sarge (Serving You... on Operation Noble Eagle!)
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