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White without Apology
TooGoodReports ^ | 08/13/03 | Bernard Chapin

Posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:47 AM PDT by bedolido

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1 posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:47 AM PDT by bedolido
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To: bedolido
Best article I've seen in a long, long time...
2 posted on 08/13/2003 7:04:36 AM PDT by abner (In search of a witty tag line...)
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To: bedolido
I may have to print this article out and just hand it to some of the idiots that I have debated about this issue.

By the way, I am finding the easiest way to pick a debate with a douche-bag liberal is to walk into any coffee shop with a shirt that says, "I love Bush". Most everyone that hangs out at these places seems to be a psuedo-intellectual Marxist piece of crap. Very easy to debate and conquer. Handing them this article when they talk about "oppression" might be some additional ammo. Of course, when handing them this article, it would be best to add, "...and while you are trying to improve yourself, bath."

3 posted on 08/13/2003 7:09:15 AM PDT by mattdono
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To: bedolido
I'm pissed that he let Lincoln's name be besmirched. He should have piped up then.
4 posted on 08/13/2003 7:11:36 AM PDT by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: bedolido
Lincoln, by the standards of today, WAS a racist ('course these days anybody who believes that a person should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin is probably a racist by NAALCP standards...). Among other things, he wanted to colonize blacks back to Africa. He fought the Civil War (aka War of Northern Agression) to preserve the Union, not to free the slaves; slavery was largely a propaganda issue to keep England and France out of the war.
That said, we can't really judge him by the standards of today. For the mid-19th century his outlook was reasonable and benign; there were many folks (North AND South) that didn't even see blacks (or Indians, or Chinese, or Irish...) as human...
As shown in the anecdote, Lincoln treated blacks as equals whether or not he believed they were equal and believed that was the law should deal with them this way also.

Not my favorite President, but not the monster of "The Real Lincoln" either.
5 posted on 08/13/2003 7:11:54 AM PDT by Little Ray (When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!)
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To: bedolido
It was between two young baggers who were talking about an article one of them had read regarding President Lincoln. Both men happened to be black. One of them informed the other that President Lincoln cared nothing about blacks and was actually a racist.

With one or two well chosen pings, I could turn this into a civil war thread. I won't do it. But I could. Instead, I'll just make a crack and say I hadn't realized Lew Rockwell was actually a black grocery store clerk, and leave it at that.

6 posted on 08/13/2003 7:12:03 AM PDT by Huck
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

7 posted on 08/13/2003 7:16:21 AM PDT by mhking
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To: stainlessbanner
have at it.
8 posted on 08/13/2003 7:16:59 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: bedolido
Besides, if there were such a thing as institutional racism no blacks would have ever made it. They’re be no Cedric the Entertainer’s, Deion Sanders’, Tiger Woods’ or Halle Berry’s.

Not to nitpick, but he really should have tried to name somebody who isn’t an entertainer.

Maybe Clarence Thomas, Neil Tyson, Condoleeza Rice, etc.

9 posted on 08/13/2003 7:22:31 AM PDT by dead (Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!)
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To: Little Ray
Correct. Lincoln freed the slaves, (the southern ones, anyway) for political reason, not for moral ones. The northern slaves weren't freed until after his death.
10 posted on 08/13/2003 7:26:57 AM PDT by squidly
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To: bedolido
EXCELLENT ARTICLE

I just want to know when we are going to celebrate White History Month, when there will be a box labled "European-American" to check on my drivers license application, and when can I expect my reparations check from the government for killing many of my German ancestors?

11 posted on 08/13/2003 7:37:39 AM PDT by WestPacSailor (Remember Baron 52: Not all the POW/MIAs came home.)
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To: Huck
With one or two well chosen pings, I could turn this into a civil war thread. I won't do it. But I could.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Don't you go makin' no threats, Huck, ya hear?
12 posted on 08/13/2003 7:43:32 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: squidly
The northern slaves weren't freed until after his death.

Northern slaves? The Emancipation Proclamation freed all slaves in the United States. Even before that the northern states had outlawed slavery (maybe not in reality). I am not familiar with northern slavery. What is your source?

13 posted on 08/13/2003 7:43:41 AM PDT by bedolido (None of us is as dumb as all of us!)
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To: bedolido
...It is unfortunate that I, and numerous other Caucasians, do not always emphatically state our views when asked...

I always have.
Course, I've never been able to work in the corporate world where PC and BS is a way of life.

As to Institutionalized Racism, there certainly is that. The Supreme Court made it the law of the land with their recent decision.

It just happens to be anti-white.
14 posted on 08/13/2003 7:46:32 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Mean spirited liberals suck!)
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To: bedolido; mhking
He made the point that “institutional racism” is the reason many blacks “have not made it.” I told him there was no such thing. It is a creation of the university Marxists who have substituted “African-Americans, Hispanics, women and gays” for the word “proletariat.”

Lends credence to my theory that American blacks are in what I call "The Marxist Laboratory."

15 posted on 08/13/2003 7:52:39 AM PDT by rdb3 (I'm not a complete idiot. Several parts are missing.)
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To: bedolido
What I learned in AP History is the the Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in the occupied South. There were slave states that remained in the Union, but in order to keep their support, Lincoln couldn't free the slaves in those states (it's been too long, I can't remember which states those were). I think I'll go look around to give you evidence...
16 posted on 08/13/2003 7:54:48 AM PDT by Ayn Rand wannabe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!)
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To: bedolido
The Emancipation Proclamation freed all slaves in the United States.

Now, therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-In-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for supressing said rebellion, do, on this 1st day of January, A.D. 1863, and in accordance with my purpose so to do, publicly proclaimed for the full period of one hundred days from the first day above mentioned, order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof, respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States the following, to wit:

Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana (except the parishes of St. Bernard, Palquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James, Ascension, Assumption, Terrebone, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the city of New Orleans), Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkeley, Accomac, Morthhampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Anne, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth), and which excepted parts are for the present left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.


In short, President Licoln attempted to free those whom he had no control over and leave those in chains that he did. But, that is a topic for another thread.

I am not familiar with northern slavery. What is your source?

The very document you reference.
17 posted on 08/13/2003 7:55:07 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: bedolido
I do know many union shops in the North refused to hire escaped or freed slaves. They were just as racist as the South is portrayed to have been. They just did a better job at hiding it.
18 posted on 08/13/2003 7:55:49 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Go Fast, Turn Left!)
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To: Ayn Rand wannabe; bedolido
it's been too long, I can't remember which states those were

Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia.
19 posted on 08/13/2003 7:57:30 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: Ayn Rand wannabe; bedolido
it's been too long, I can't remember which states those were

Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia.
20 posted on 08/13/2003 7:58:50 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: bedolido
The Emancipation Proclamation freed all slaves in the United States. Even before that the northern states had outlawed slavery

The EP only freed the slaves within the states that were in rebellion, straight from the EP itself: all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free

Slaves in states that did not secede, Maryland, Kentucky, Delaware, Missouri, were not freed until passage of the 13th Amendment after Lincoln's death.

21 posted on 08/13/2003 7:58:50 AM PDT by squidly
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To: bedolido
Wasp69 beat me to it, but that's alright:

"That on the 1st day of January, A.D. 1863, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom.

Or here: http://www.nps.gov/ncro/anti/emancipation.html
Excerpted from the Emancipation Proclamation
22 posted on 08/13/2003 7:59:03 AM PDT by Ayn Rand wannabe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!)
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To: squidly
looks like some folks beat me to it (g)
23 posted on 08/13/2003 7:59:42 AM PDT by squidly
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To: wasp69
Vielen Dank.
24 posted on 08/13/2003 8:00:35 AM PDT by Ayn Rand wannabe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!)
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To: wardaddy; Constitution Day
Damn - its a working morning - I can't grab a bucket of popcorn and a beer to watch this one.
25 posted on 08/13/2003 8:00:45 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine ("What if the hokey pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)
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To: Huck; justshutupandtakeit; stand watie; WhiskeyPapa; southern cross forever
With one or two well chosen pings, I could turn this into a civil war thread. I won't do it. But I could.

Why, whatever do you mean???

26 posted on 08/13/2003 8:02:23 AM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING BUT OCCASIONALLY READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Look at my post below yours, and revel in the fact that we are utterly evil.....
27 posted on 08/13/2003 8:03:07 AM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING BUT OCCASIONALLY READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: WestPacSailor
when we are going to celebrate White History Month, when there will be a box labled "European-American" to check on my drivers license application, and when can I expect my reparations check from the government for killing many of my German ancestors?

Hear, hear!

28 posted on 08/13/2003 8:03:54 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: Ayn Rand wannabe
Any time.
29 posted on 08/13/2003 8:04:12 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: mattdono
walk into any coffee shop with a shirt that says, "I love Bush".

That gets me applause at my local sports bar. Also at WNBA games.

30 posted on 08/13/2003 8:04:57 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Lazamataz
Look at my post below yours, and revel in the fact that we are utterly evil.....

Laz, you are truly an irreverant breath of fresh air on FR. And you are utterly evil.
31 posted on 08/13/2003 8:05:17 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: bedolido
Conservatives will always have problems attracting the have-nots, because the conservative message is to tell someone that they are better off earning things on their own than stuff being given to them. Opportunity is the only thing that is owed all Americans. Liberals will always have the edge in attracting "the less fortunate", because people will always support the people that "give" them something. That "minorities" do not realize that all liberals give them are anchors around their necks is a tragedy. President Bush has a bully pulpit, and he must use it. He must pound home the conservative AMERICAN!! message.
32 posted on 08/13/2003 8:06:40 AM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: rdb3
that's a chilling way of putting it.
hmmm.
I like it. I trust I have your leave to use it?
33 posted on 08/13/2003 8:06:50 AM PDT by King Prout (people hear and do not listen, see and do not observe, speak without thought, post and not edit)
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To: Lazamataz
Oh, dude - there is something wrong with you. LOL.
34 posted on 08/13/2003 8:09:01 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine ("What if the hokey pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)
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To: Huck
Thank you very much for NOT turning this into a Civil War thread. There are plenty of those already.
35 posted on 08/13/2003 8:09:49 AM PDT by rdb3 (I'm not a complete idiot. Several parts are missing.)
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To: Larry Lucido
That gets me applause at my local sports bar.

I usually will add in, "...and the President too".

36 posted on 08/13/2003 8:11:15 AM PDT by mattdono
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To: King Prout
I like it. I trust I have your leave to use it?

Most def. Have at it.

37 posted on 08/13/2003 8:13:51 AM PDT by rdb3 (I'm not a complete idiot. Several parts are missing.)
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To: Lazamataz
LOL!
38 posted on 08/13/2003 8:14:32 AM PDT by Huck
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To: wasp69
Nice sting, Wasp!
39 posted on 08/13/2003 8:15:48 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles - -)
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To: Huck; wasp69; Chancellor Palpatine
:o)
40 posted on 08/13/2003 8:16:11 AM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: Huck
The article wasn't about Lincoln, but there are plenty of other threads on that issue. Rather, the piece was about how reparations and "white guilt" are not healthy for society.

I prefer not to draw battlelines on this thread; the author's closing statement sums it up pretty well.

41 posted on 08/13/2003 8:16:37 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: bedolido
He argued that blacks have put their blood and sweat into this country’s infrastructure and deserve reparation for their effort.

Okay. Here's $45, thanks for all the cotton.

But seriously, our country's economy isn't based on agriculture. If it were, the South would have won.

42 posted on 08/13/2003 8:18:51 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: stainlessbanner
I prefer not to draw battlelines on this thread; the author's closing statement sums it up pretty well.

Thank you, sir! Seriously.

43 posted on 08/13/2003 8:19:18 AM PDT by rdb3 (I'm not a complete idiot. Several parts are missing.)
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To: wasp69
thanks for the correction, and posting the source. It's amazing such things actually happened here. This was thought of as radical as well.
44 posted on 08/13/2003 8:20:22 AM PDT by bedolido (None of us is as dumb as all of us!)
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To: GladesGuru
No sting, GladesGuru, just the facts. But thank you anyway ;}
45 posted on 08/13/2003 8:20:32 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: stainlessbanner; Huck; rdb3
I prefer not to draw battlelines on this thread; the author's closing statement sums it up pretty well.

Here, here.
46 posted on 08/13/2003 8:23:02 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: bedolido
thanks for the correction, and posting the source.

No sweat. If you ever have the time to look deeper into that period in time, I think you would find more than a few eye poppers.
47 posted on 08/13/2003 8:24:36 AM PDT by wasp69 (Remember, Uday in Pig Latin is DU)
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To: squidly
Perhaps you ought to study a little bit more before you make assumptions. The Lincoln administration was working on plans to free slaves in Delaware as early as the late summer of 1861 and had hoped to expand that program to other states. They formulated a plan that would have compensated every slaveholder for their freed chattel. The plan wasn't implemented because the method of funding missed being passed by one vote.

Lincoln clearly believed slavery was wrong and evil. Anybody who has ever made a serious study of his pre-war writings and speeches knows this.
48 posted on 08/13/2003 8:24:53 AM PDT by XRdsRev
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To: bedolido
OK, let's dance...

I respect everyone's right to express an opinion but I respect no one's right to be wrong in their facts.

The institutional racism did and in some areas does exist. Please refer to any Tuskegee Airman that returned after WWII and were not permitted to submit an application...Anyone who applied for admission to University of Alabama before George Wallace was president...Anyone who wanted to have lunch at the restaurant of their choice in North Carolina...The silencing of Benjamin Davis at the US Military Academy...The fact we fought the world's ultimate racist during World War II with a segregated army(or was that executive decree by Truman simply reaffirming something done earlier...
The racial profiling that is still persistent in many parts of our country today..
Separate but equal...Plessy vs. Ferguson in 1896 to Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954...1954 to 1957 Little Rock...1957 to 1964 before the Civil Rights Act...And what were these Grandfather Clauses... Oh...and Ladies...How many elections did you participate in before 1920?...

As black conservatives we are never going to have credibility if we accept the opinion of a revisionist who denies that black people have been treated unfairly by both political parties at times when it served their needs.

When the economy gets bad, everyone here knows that there is that fear that they will be laid off and that if an equally qualified black person is competing against an equalified white person for a job or a contract, the black person does not always feel that he is on an even playing field.

We will move forward if we deal with the history and the present honestly.

I would love to have a discussion about how it is that Blacks came to support the Democratic Party so heavily... I have the feeling it may have something to do with the perception that we were sold out so that Rutherford B. Hayes could gain the presidency (removing those federal troops from the south and all)... Then the Jim Crow laws... Somewhere in there, black people must have felt their best interests were not being served by the Republican Party...

We can say that conservatives treat us more fairly TODAY and we can say that conservative IDEALS serve us and empower us TODAY but we also have to understand that our acceptance into the corridors of opportunity and success are based only on what we do...We are not going to be given many second chances (or do you think that JC Watts is going to be running for Governor, Senator, or be appointed to some cabinet or administration post some time in the near or distant future)... Do you think Colin Powell is going to be given a second chance to fail?

Let us all take a breath of reality and realize that we are on our way to becoming an established interest and with the education and opportunity provided to us recently, we have an opportunity to secure our future by joining the conservative movement...

But let us not slip into complacency and think that there are not those that in both parties that will sell us out in a moment if circumstances dictate...

Also, I notice that the writer seems to always point to persons that are not necessarily in the mainstream of our community and define our entire community based on the attitudes of those persons... In other words, they tend to grasp every opportunity to think the worst of us...I think there is room for improvement here on all sides...

I would say that maybe the real truth may be that there are many among us who have outgrown what the Democratic Party has for us but we would be lying to ourselves if we walk around trying to act like conservatives have always been as fair and open minded as they are today.

Live in the present, but learn from the past...
49 posted on 08/13/2003 8:25:13 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: abner; hellinahandcart
indeed.
50 posted on 08/13/2003 8:25:33 AM PDT by sauropod (Graduate: Burt Gummer's Survival School)
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