Black boys see little to encourage education

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8/17/03 | NATHAN McCALL

[okie01]

"Somewhere the Republican party became the party of established interests and the Democratic Party became the party of the disenfranchised..."

The common black interpretation of this particular piece of dogma was manifested by the Civil Rights and Voting Acts of the sixties.

In the wake of Kennedy's death, LBJ cynically promoted this legislation with the clear knowledge that he "would own the black vote for a generation".

The GOP candidate in 1964, Barry Goldwater, voted against the Voting Rights Act, based on a strong Constitutional rationale (it treated some states differently from others, a violation of the 14th amendment).

As it happened, LBJ couldn't get enough members of his own party to vote for either act and it was the Republicans in Congress who actually supplied the votes for passage (more Republicans voted for these two acts than did Democrats).

However, Goldwater's principled resistance was craftily exploited in the 1964 election so that black voters gave a huge majority of their vote to LBJ and the Democrat congressmen (even if they had actually voted against the bills).

Up to that point, the majority of the black vote (what little there was) had gone to Republican candidates, in recognition of the party's stance on slavery. From 1964 forward, though, the Democrats have "owned" the black vote. Seemingly without having to do anything to earn it...

[dwd1]

I do think it is possible that the Great Depression was the turning point... If you remember that the black community was pretty much abandoned when reconstruction ended, (withdrawal of federal troops from the south) Jim Crow Laws, Plessy vs. Ferguson, and then the Great Depression, it has always been my honest opinion that this was the turning point. The stories I have heard about what people, all people, did to survive during that time are not pleasant... Many feel as though FDR was a hero and I know Hoover did not win re-election because there was a perception that he could not see or understand, not to mention do anything to help the millions that were in need... I would love to hear from anyone concerning whether all people suffered equally or did some people suffer more during the Great Depression... I think maybe the gratitude that many from that generation feel may be the beginning of what could be considered the blind loyalty to the Democrats...

[dwd1]

All right, then if I am wrong (and it would not be the first time) and the turning point is 1964, then we are conceding that less than 40 years ago, things were different...

If up to that time, blacks voted with the GOP, then we have a chance to change things...

As I have said before, I find it interesting how Powell, Jackson, Ford, and Thomas came up about the same time. Perhaps the selling point to the black community should be that if you join the conservative movement, you will not be hung out to dry as long as you follow conservative principles...

If you see where Powell and Thomas are versus where Jackson and Ford are, you can see that on one side, you can go as far as your talent and opportunities can take you and on the liberal side, there is a glass ceiling...

[King Prout]

that looks like it might be an effective dagger. I like it.

[Old Professer]

Kind of like the tribal ritual of posting shrunken heads, I think.

[dwd1]

One minor concern...

What type of message are we going to send to the black community? If we are trying to convert them and get them to believe that conservative ideals and the GOP are the way to establish long term political presence and economic opportunity, how do we do that? It occurs to me that we might want to make sure that we are not perceived as simply giving certain conservatives anecdotal evidence and ammunition to look at the majority of the black community with condescension and contempt...

As a conservative, I know what has worked for me, but I also know that there may be others who did not have the same opportunities as I did. I do not mind stating very clearly that there are problems in the black community and we need to get our house in order but I am not sure that simply telling the bad news about "those other black people" is how I want to do it...

If a person were to see the postings here, some might see a spirited discussion and some might see one group of black people saying some rather unpleasant things about other black people who are simply expressing an opposing belief or point of view...

I just hope that we also spend a little time talking about things that we can do and say in the media and when conversing with others that may have not accepting the conservative way of thinking....

I am not sure that we are "accentuating the positive" and letting persons know that they are welcome to come and discuss their views without being called names and told to go back to Africa (where most of us know we are not wanted). I would like to see us engage the person who has an opposing viewpoint and have the most accurate case of why this conservative movement is the best thing for them... Otherwise, we may have a little trouble getting rid of that "sell-out and house n$gger" label that I personally could do without...

We are blessed to have what we have and to understand as we do, but I hope that we do not forget that the guy who jumped through all the hoops and didn't get his shot (happens to all types, doesn't it) could with a twist of fate be in our shoes... I believe the expression was, "There, but for the Grace of God, go I"

Judge Joe Brown, you da' man...

[dwd1]

I think Powell having the support of Frank Carlucci after his White House fellowship and Thomas having the support of Attorney General and then Senator John Danforth did not hurt but I believe that Jesse and Harold had the same thing...

Now we have...
Michael Powell Chairman of the FCC
Supreme Court Justice Thomas (don't know about his kids)
Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr.
Congressman Harold Ford Jr.

Sometimes,it is still about who you know, not what you know...

I guess I did not pick my parents well...:-)

[optimistically_conservative]

No, you're absolutely right that FDR did much to turn many, especially whom Marx referred to as the proletariat, to the Democratic party:

The problems of the Great Depression affected virtually every group of Americans. No group was harder hit than African Americans, however. By 1932, approximately half of black Americans were out of work. In some Northern cities, whites called for blacks to be fired from any jobs as long as there were whites out of work. Racial violence again became more common, especially in the South. Lynchings, which had declined to eight in 1932, surged to 28 in 1933.

Although most African Americans traditionally voted Republican, the election of President Franklin Roosevelt began to change voting patterns. Roosevelt entertained African-American visitors at the White House and was known to have a number of black advisors. According to historian John Hope Franklin, many African Americans were excited by the energy with which Roosevelt began tackling the problems of the Depression and gained "a sense of belonging they had never experienced before" from his fireside chats.

Still, discrimination occurred in New Deal housing and employment projects, and President Roosevelt, for political reasons, did not back all of the legislation favored by such groups as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). When the U.S. entered World War II, labor leader A. Philip Randolph threatened to organize a march on Washington to protest job discrimination in the military and other defense-related activities. In response, President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 8802, stating that all persons, regardless of race, creed, color, or national origin, would be allowed to participate fully in the defense of the United States. ^*

WWII, and Truman's integration of the Armed Forces was another big draw. Kennedy and Johnson's Civil Rights legislation cemented the relationship. These efforts by leaders, against the position of much of their party and for a multitude of political and ideological reasons, have brought them the party loyalty among blacks seen today. I do believe that it's been the $$ dependancy, and cottage industries/lobbying, that has kept the black community fiercly committed to the Democrats longer than they've deserved. A group that has less than 10% dissenters is suspicious, kinda like the re-election numbers Saddam and little Kim get, you know?

[King Prout]

you might wish to discuss this topic with mhking and rdb3 - I get the impression that this is something about which they have given much thought over many years, and they will have an insider's perspective which I cannot claim.

[dwd1]

That makes perfect sense about how we got into this mess. Now, if we can start formulating a way out, I think my grandchildren will be asking me, "Grampa, what was a liberal?"

[Maigrey]

Liberal speak for whine, whine, whine.

He lost me when he made a pointed slam at Dubya. (who has higher education degrees....)

[dwd1]

You know me...I am very logic minded (probably too much Star Trek!!) Always looking for answers...

Great discussion today..

BTW, how are you?

[dwd1]

I think every president has shortcoming but you have to give GWB one thing...He does what an MBA is trained to do...He surrounds himself with some very smart people....

[Migraine]

I think it happened in the 1960s when the concept of the helping hand as a jumpstart for the lagging and impoverished underclass ("war on poverty") failed, but serendipitously found that it was a vote cow. So, gradually, at first stealthily, but now shamelessly, the Democracks milk that cow for all it's worth. They demogogue, and it works. The attempt in the 60s was righteous and well-meaning, because the jumpstart bit had to be tried. But now, 40 years later, the pandering to dependents and dependencies is inexcusable, and dastardly politics -- for it guarantees the perpetuation of the problems.
I disagree with the premise that Republicans represent established interests (any more than Democracks do). I think that about one-third of the republican party, the segment we call "country-clubbers", DO represent monied interests; but, by and large, I feel, the party is about individualism, achievement, capitalism and excellence. The Democracks, on the other hand, are almost entirely about dependency and benefits. So. You could say that politics is "give and take". Today, that means there's a "give" party and there's a "take" party. I maintain that when the "takers" outnumber the "givers", the system will implode (and that's precisely what's happening in California; and I predicted it, using this model, 10 years ago).

[King Prout]

ummm... there is much that I could say about these points, based on my own observations. However, I am not in love with the idea of being ZOTted, nor do I wish to offend anyone, and some of what I would say would almost certainly do one or the other or both. So, sadly, I will decline to discuss it publicly. Call it well-learned white timidity on conversations regarding race, if you must: It's a perfectly accurate description and accusation.
For what little it is worth, I will go so far as to state that if one fails to coldly or objectively define the root causes of a set of problems, one cannot solve those problems save by blind luck - and, usually, luck don't work that good.

[King Prout]

Can't complain - getting some useful work done on the off-day, with no morons underfoot to trip over. Looking forward to next weekend and its promise of female company. Thanks for asking :)

[King Prout]

going on suppertime. BBL. Please keep the discussion rolling - some interesting thoughts being refined here.

[dwd1]

I think without balance in the system, (i.e. the persons who obtain government benefits must have a wealthy group from which to extort benefits...The wealthy must have a quality of life that surpasses the downside of supporting those who take from the government... This will produce civility) What the persons who takes government assistance must realize is that with the taking comes an absolute responsibility to emancipate yourself from dependency... I sometimes think this lesson is easier to learn in a small town like where I come from versus a large city where a group of dependant persons can form a community and keep the cycle going....

The rest of us are just doing the best we can to make an honest living...

[dwd1]

You can always reply to me privately if you feel that someone may be offended...

To me, the truth may be hard to face, but I promise you, if it is the truth, all I can do is be a man and say "Well, you got me there!"

Keep in touch...

[Maigrey]

Oh. I love her quote. You think she'd mind if I quoted her?