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Astrologers fail to predict Proof they are wrong
News Telegraph ^ | 8/17/2003 | Robert Matthews

Posted on 08/18/2003 6:25:02 PM PDT by RockDoc

Good news for rational, level-headed Virgoans everywhere: just as you might have predicted, scientists have found astrology to be rubbish, writes Science Correspondent Robert Matthews.

Good news for rational, level-headed Virgoans everywhere: just as you might have predicted, scientists have found astrology to be rubbish.

Its central claim - that our human characteristics are moulded by the influence of the Sun, Moon and planets at the time of our birth - appears to have been debunked once and for all and beyond doubt by the most thorough scientific study ever made into it.

For several decades, researchers tracked more than 2,000 people - most of them born within minutes of each other. According to astrology, the subject should have had very similar traits.

The babies were originally recruited as part of a medical study begun in London in 1958 into how the circumstances of birth can affect future health. More than 2,000 babies born in early March that year were registered and their development monitored at regular intervals.

Researchers looked at more than 100 different characteristics, including occupation, anxiety levels, marital status, aggressiveness, sociability, IQ levels and ability in art, sport, mathematics and reading - all of which astrologers claim can be gauged from birth charts.

The scientists failed to find any evidence of similarities between the "time twins", however. They reported in the current issue of the Journal of Consciousness Studies: "The test conditions could hardly have been more conducive to success . . . but the results are uniformly negative."

Analysis of the research was carried out by Geoffrey Dean, a scientist and former astrologer based in Perth, Australia, and Ivan Kelly, a psychologist at the University of Saskatchewan, Canada.

Dr Dean said the results undermined the claims of astrologers, who typically work with birth data far less precise than that used in the study. "They sometimes argue that times of birth just a minute apart can make all the difference by altering what they call the 'house cusps'," he said. "But in their work, they are happy to take whatever time they can get from a client."

The findings caused alarm and anger in astrological circles yesterday. Roy Gillett, the president of the Astrological Association of Great Britain, said the study's findings should be treated "with extreme caution" and accused Dr Dean of seeking to "discredit astrology".

Frank McGillion, a consultant to the Southampton-based Research Group for the Critical Study of Astrology, said of the newly published work: "It is simplistic and highly selective and does not cover all of the research." He added that he would lodge a complaint with the editors of the journal.

Astrologers have for centuries claimed to be able to extract deep insights into the personality and destiny of people using nothing more than the details of the time and place of birth.

Astrology has been growing in popularity. Surveys suggest that a majority of people in Britain believe in it, compared with only 13 per cent 50 years ago. The Association of Professional Astrologers claims that 80 per cent of Britons read star columns, and psychological studies have found that 60 per cent regularly read their horoscopes.

Despite the scepticism of scientists, astrology has grown to be a huge worldwide business, spawning thousands of telephone lines, internet sites and horoscope columns in newspapers and magazines.

It seems that no sector of society is immune to its attraction. A recent survey found that a third of science students subscribed to some aspects of astrology, while some supposedly hard-headed businessmen now support a thriving market in "financial astrology" - paying for predictions of trends such as the rise and fall of the stock market. Astrology supplements have been known to increase newspaper circulation figures and papers are prepared to pay huge sums to the most popular stargazers.

Some of the most popular figures in the field, such as Russell Grant, Mystic Meg and Shelley von Strunckel, can earn £600,000 or more a year.

A single profitable astrology website can be worth as much as £50 million.

When the Daily Mail discovered that its expert on the zodiac, Jonathan Cainer, was about to leave the newspaper in 1999, it reportedly offered him a £1 million salary and a £1 million bonus to stay. He still preferred the offer at the Daily Express: no salary but all the money from his telephone lines.

The time-twins study is only the start of the bad news for astrologers, however. Dr Dean and Prof Kelly also sought to determine whether stargazers could match a birth chart to the personality profile of a person among a random selection.

They reviewed the evidence from more than 40 studies involving over 700 astrologers, but found the results turned out no better than guesswork.

The success rate did not improve even when astrologers were given all the information they asked for and were confident they had made the right choice.

Dr Dean said the consistency of the findings weighed heavily against astrology.

"It has no acceptable mechanism, its principles are invalid and it has failed hundreds of tests," he said. "But no hint of these problems will be found in astrology books which, in effect, are exercises in deception."

Dr Dean is ready for a torrent of criticism. He said: "I'm probably the most hated person in astrology because I'm regarded as a turncoat."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: astology; kookfest; loons; research; stars
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To: nmh
"I have the natural gift of ESP."


Lewis Grizzard " My wife had ESP and PMS.
She was a bitch and knew EVERYTHING"
81 posted on 08/18/2003 9:34:45 PM PDT by WKB (3!~ ( You can hear it anywhere but only here can you tell the world what you think about it))
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To: nmh
In Judaism, it is forbidden to go to an astrologer as one might put their faith in the astrologer rather than G-d. It is looked on as a form of idol worship. There is a form a "Jewish" astrology, but I have no experience in it.

In Judaism there is a path that the world is destined to follow. It is called in Hebrew "Mazal". The word is often used like one would say luck, as in "Mazal Tov" or good luck. The word in the actually scriptual usage that I have studied has to do with divine providence. That is why we pray to G-d. Since G-d created the world's "mazal", he can alter it with our prayers (if he so chooses).

Divine providence is an altogether confusing subject in itself. The bottom line is that G-d wants us to come and ask him for our "good fortune" instead of going to astrologers or seers. It is taught that to put one's trust in anything else is to subject oneself to the mazal of the world that he created.

82 posted on 08/18/2003 9:35:32 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: nmh
Poor choice of words:

I have the CURSE of ESP, and believe me my friend, I would not wish that upon my worse enemy.

83 posted on 08/18/2003 9:36:06 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: Hunble
Are you troubled by multiple visions? Anything like David Michael Scallion?
84 posted on 08/18/2003 9:38:36 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Hunble
Oops, I meant Gordon-Michael Scallion.
85 posted on 08/18/2003 9:39:43 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum
No!

Private questions like that should be by private Freeper mail. However, your Biblical perspective was rather accurate and is respected.

86 posted on 08/18/2003 9:42:16 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: Nachum; humble
I was too hasty in my post. I should have explained this better so here goes. When you make predictions, there is a chance they could be correct. Shall we use flipping a coin? Will it be heads or tails? Statistically there should be a 50/50 chance for either side to be up. So in 100 flips there should be 50 of each. However, this is not always the case. There could be more heads one time or more tails the next. The following link will describe the curve, control charts, and what 3 sigma is. I was commenting that those predictions made could have fallen within the realm of statistical probability.

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/pmc/section3/pmc31.htm
87 posted on 08/18/2003 9:42:37 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: The Brush
Does your brother live in San Francisco?
88 posted on 08/18/2003 9:45:21 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: Hunble
Hunble wrote: Does your brother live in San Francisco?

You know, I never asked him... I'll check with my astrologer, she'll know!

89 posted on 08/18/2003 9:49:11 PM PDT by The Brush
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To: RadioAstronomer
As a scientist, the website that RadioAstronomer just posted is very important information. Read and learn, since this is one of the most basic aspects of the scientific method.

I will never, ever claim that my ESP could be documented and be verified within mathematical standards. Believe me, I am the first person that will call it impossible to document within scientific standards.

Believe me, this week, I hope like hell that I am wrong. I am praying that I am wrong! I will do anything to make it wrong.

90 posted on 08/18/2003 9:59:36 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: RadioAstronomer
Ah, I understand about statistical probability. There are people alive who would scare you out of your calculator. LOL
91 posted on 08/18/2003 10:09:08 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Hunble
MY MOTHER WILL DIE OF CANCER, AND THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Two weeks ago, she went into the hospital for minor surgery. No big deal, since it is something she had done about 10 times.

I knew this time was different, and wrote it down, with the date and time. Oh my God, my mother is going to die!

While under this minor surgery, the Doctor noticed something unusual, and decided to check it out.

My Mother has advanced Lymphoma!

Believe me my friends, there are time when I wish to hell that I did not know!

92 posted on 08/18/2003 10:09:59 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: Hunble
Ah, my sincere apologies. I did not mean to pry. I will address any further questions via FReepmail.

As for the accuracy of the Bibical perspective, it is a fairly straight forward teaching in traditional Jewish philosophy.

93 posted on 08/18/2003 10:12:10 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Hunble
May G-d grant her a complete healing.
94 posted on 08/18/2003 10:16:54 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: DallasMike
Here you go... $20
95 posted on 08/18/2003 10:20:08 PM PDT by Axenolith (Scratch and sniff here -------> <--------(This really works))
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To: Rodney King
Maybe thats why the results sucked, if the signs were correct they'd have actually aced the scrutiny...
96 posted on 08/18/2003 10:22:41 PM PDT by Axenolith (Scratch and sniff here -------> <--------(This really works))
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To: Miss Marple
Conjunction Junction

I'll see you that mnemonic demon and raise you a "She Ran Calling Wildfire"...

...what's your functi..GAAAAHHHHH!

97 posted on 08/18/2003 10:32:50 PM PDT by Axenolith (Scratch and sniff here -------> <--------(This really works))
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To: Hunble
i'm sorry about your mother.

how about if all the esp people and astrologers each post ten predictions BEFORE THEY HAPPEN. then we can have a good test of astrology and esp right here. the skeptics can keep track of the number of predictions that turn out to be right.
i predict (based on my advanced astrological knowledge) that the hit rate will be equal to chance.
98 posted on 08/18/2003 10:39:21 PM PDT by drhogan
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To: drhogan
I have tried to type a decent reply, but nothing seems to be correct.

I have stated many times tonight that Astrology is only a tool. What God tells you, is something very personal.

These are tools that people can use to help them listen to the quiet messages that God is telling you. There are so many other methods, it would be impossible for me to list them.

I thank you for your expression of sorrow about my mother. Obviously, tonight was not fun for me.

But why should my mother and I feel sad? Is she not about to begin something much more wonderful?

If anything, this should be PARTY TIME!

99 posted on 08/18/2003 10:50:16 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: Hunble
i'm sorry that i misinterpreted what you were saying. i believe that God probably chooses many different ways to speak to people.

my comments about astrology were meant more for those people who are claiming that it (or other techniques) give them special abilities to predict the future. i realize that you are saying something different, and i shouldn't have mixed the 2 things together. it would be arrogant and unreasonable for me to question another person's religious beliefs, and i am not questioning how God chooses to speak to you.
i am questioning those people who claim to be able to predict future events.
again, sorry for mixing these 2 things together.


100 posted on 08/18/2003 11:31:55 PM PDT by drhogan
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