CD-Recordable discs unreadable in less than two years

CDFreaks.com (by way of SlashDot) ^ | 19 August 2003 | Dennis

[Eala]

The Dutch PC-Active magazine has done an extensive CD-R quality test. For the test the magazine has taken a look at the readability of discs, thirty different CD-R brands, that were recorded twenty months ago. The results were quite shocking as a lot of the discs simply couldn't be read anymore:

Roughly translated from Dutch:

The tests showed that a number of CD-Rs had become completely unreadable while others could only be read back partially. Data that was recorded 20 months ago had become unreadable. These included discs of well known and lesser known manufacturers.

It is presumed that CD-Rs are good for at least 10 years. Some manufacturers even claim that their CD-Rs will last up to a century. From our tests it's concluded however that there is a lot of junk on the market. We came across CD-Rs that should never have been released to the market. It's completely unacceptable that CD-Rs become unusable in less than two years.

On the image you can see the exact same CD-R. On the left you see the outcome of our tests done in 2001. On the right you see the same CD-R in 2003. The colours indicate the severeness of the errors in the following order; white, green, yellow and red whereas white indicates that the disc can be read well and red indicates that it cannot be read.

For those of you who are interested, the original Dutch article can be found here and in the September issue of PC-Active. Please discuss this subject in our Media Forum.

[Eala]

What about missing chads?

Paging Chad Fairbanks...

[Chad Fairbanks]

OMG! You can still read and write 8" Floppoes, too? LOL I thought I was alone!

Every time I fire up that surplus mainframe in the workshop, the lights in the neighborhood dim ;0)

[Eala]

Super, now we'll know who to track down to help rebuild civilization after Lucifer's Hammer hits!

Should I be investing in whoever makes "Baggies"...

ummm, never mind.

[Eala]

Couldn't find the cause anywhere. Is the loss of readability due to wear and tear of use, or just time?

I don't know, because I don't know anything more than you about this. It would seem, though, that the media (disks) some CD-R vendors are selling on the market are something less than desireable (i.e. persistant). That's my guess anyway, given that CD-R information storage is based on some kind of material phase-change, as opposed to the rather more persistant physical storage mechanisms (however subsequently vulnerable) employed by mass-manufactured DCs and vinyl records.

[Eala]

Tip: If you're using a Sharpie marker (or similar) to write on the label side of the disc you're playing with fire. The dyes from the permanent marker can seep through to the dye layer of the disc and corrupt it. Buy markers that use water-based pigment and are specifically made for use with disc media.

I was unaware of this. Thanks!!

[Leroy S. Mort]

Did you get that drive recently?

Bought it several years ago. I don't know if you can buy one new but they occasionally show up on eBay

[RadioAstronomer]

Indeed there is! It is a trilogy. I will find the title for you. :-)

[Eagle9]

Thanks for the ping, Dixie.

I have used Maxell® CD-R Pro Series Spindle, 700MB/80 Minutes, Pack Of 25 for about the past year and a half. If you don't have an Office Depot nearby, you can get free shipping on orders of $50 or more. I often make a copy on Maxell® CD-R Media Spindle, 650MB/74 Minutes, Pack Of 50 to use in my van. The gold Maxell CD-Rs can be found at other stores for about $15 a spindle of 50. I have used other Pro Series CD-Rs, e.g. Kodak, but Maxell is always easily availble for me and Office Depot is only a couple of miles away.

RadioAstronomer's post #153 makes a valid point, with the ECC that players use and just how effective it is. I use McIntosh home stereo equipment, which can read some damaged discs that skip on most players.

[RadioAstronomer]

After further research, the third book was not finished or released. dang. :-(

[CobaltBlue]

I still have one of the machines that can read the 5 1/4 floppies - the guys use it to play old DOS games on. I think it's got Windows 3.1 as well. They're kinda fanatical about games, even have an Atari 7600 but that's broken.

[gd124]

[i] Think about it. How many reading this can read 5-1/4 inch floppies? Anyone?[/i][p]

I still have a working 5 1/4 inch drive which I can stick in if I needed to.

[AFreeBird]

ortunately hard drives are dirt cheap so keep yours cool (install a fan)

I've got mine in removable caddy's like hot swappable drives for a RAID, only there's a fan in the front. Works pretty well.

[First_Salute]

I have known of the problem of CD lifespan for a couple years and two years ago purchased a stack of Kodak Gold CD's, that were manufactured by Kodak for archiving data.

Learning about the problem, also led me to a couple sources for high-quality gold CD's.

The Kodaks, I originally purchased at InkJetArt.com.

Their newsletter, which mentions the discontinuance, by Kodak, of the Kodak Gold CD's, and then Mitsui Gold CD's effectively replacing the Kodak's:

MITSUI GOLD REPLACES KODAK GOLD ULTIMA CD-R

Kodak discontinued making its very archival and very reliable CD-R in January 2002. Our supplies ran out about a month ago, and we have finally found a replacement CD-R that uses REAL GOLD and the same archival dye to prevent fading and loss of data.

This CD-R is the Mitsui Gold Standard. In fact, Mitsui is the company that makes the archival and patented phthalocyanine dye that Kodak was using in their CD-Rs! And while Kodak was having their gold CD-R made for them in Japan, and later in Mexico, the Mitsui Gold Standard is made right here in the U.S.A. (Colorado Springs, CO)!

When we first introduced the Kodak CD-R's back in January 2000, they were priced at $2.18 each. As Kodak began close down their plant and close out supplies, their prices dropped to 99 cents each and less, making them competitive with even the cheap, Taiwan CD-Rs. The Mitsui Gold Standard is priced at $1.29 to $1.49 per disc; but real gold, archival dye, and attention to quality doesn't come cheap.

Kodak was undependable in meeting supply demands for their disc (often running out of stock for months), but the Mitsui Gold Standard is here to stay. Good supplies are almost always on hand. In fact, the Mitsui plant in Colorado can often manufacture special runs with only a couple of days notice.

Although quality and American reliability costs a little more, we're sure you'll agree, that for your important digital archive files, its well worth the assurance of knowing that your data is going to be safe and retrievable. For more information on the Mitsui Gold Standard.

You can buy Mitsui from InkJetArt.com, or you might be interested in CD Dimensions, these links:

Mitsui Gold With Gold Ink Jet Printable CDR Media, 74 Min./650MB In Cakebox

Mitsui Gold With White Ink Jet Printable CDR Media, 74 Min./650MB In Cakebox

Mitsui Gold CDR Media in Cakebox, 52x, 650MB/74 Min. (Color Thermal Printer Approved)

For better than everyday use, because I like success, in this business of recording to CD's:

Taiyo Yuden PrintWrite 80 Min.700MB White Ink Jet Printable CDR Media

The big deal with CD's, is simple. Purchase good quality for your archives and archive them --- don't use them for anything but restoring the data to a hard drive, from which drive, you would then make your everyday use type CD's.

At present, the word is that the Mitsui Gold and Taiyo Yuden CD's are generally the most reliable; the manufacturing standards are the highest. Yet there are probably other good factories.

The Mitsui Gold CD's are especially resistant to light that can age "ordinary" CD's. In addition, if you wish to save data or audio or video, if you simply keep these CD's that you want to last, in a box, they will outlive your great grandchildren's grandchildren, according to Mitsui, which rates them at 300 years; so I give 'em half. (It's the plastic, not only the dyes, that I wonder about.)

For archival storage, I use the Gold CD's and put them in a box. For general play and data transfers, I am currently using up a couple 50-CD "cakes" of Memorex, after which I'll be using the Taiyo Yuden 100-CD's.

The InkJetArt page about Mitsui Gold CD's, notes a little Windows executable named CD Itentifier v. 1.6.x. That little program will apparently "tell" you what CD disc you really have --- who really manufactured it.

I've learned about all this by stumbling onto this webpage a few years back: CD Media World. That website is sort of "the bibile" on CD's, from what I have seen.

There may be some updated information, and my current info is out of date, but the above, seems to me, to be the right direction in regard to CD recording with reliability, by means of getting good CD media.

I have not had any problems with the Mitsui Gold and Taiyo Yuden CD's from CD Dimensions. It's a good outfit. Delivery is fast. I currently prefer CD Dimensions or InkJetArt.com.

InkJetArt.com also happens to have many supplies for people interested in archiving all kinds of data and photographs.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[Eala]

Thanks for the information. Hmmm... the CDs may last 300 (or 150) years, but for how long will we have drives that can read them...?

[First_Salute]

I have had installation CD discs fail at around 10 installs. I suspect that is by design. The software suppliers are putting out junk so that it cannot be passed around. That's a pain in the butt for multi-user licensed folks in the computer maintenance industry. My theory is that little repeated exposure to the laser, is enough to cripple some of these CD's, even though the plastic surfaces and other appearances are flawless.

Getting "sour" CD's from Apple, is especially time-consuming. At the current rate, 5% of their installer CD's are junk, right out of the box.

Upon the very first occasion of a CD read failure, I "survey" the CD set and get another.

[snopercod]

Thanks for posting that.

[Eala]

I have had installation CD discs fail at around 10 installs. I suspect that is by design.

Huh? Mass-produced CDs rely on a very different technology from CD-Rs or CD-RWs -- they're the same mechanical imprinting as is used on mass-produced music CDs, and little affected by the low-energy laser read mechanisms they encounter.

That said, I've encountered problems with installation CDs -- in particular Red Hat Linux 9.0, which consistently fails on installation as a "Personal Desktop" to a VMWare virtual machine, on the 2nd CD. Seems files "x-pdf*" and after are hosed, inaccessible, or worse.