"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More

Institute on Religion and Democracy ^ | Mark Tooley

[Paul Ross]

Going to Hell in a Handbasket--Ping.

[glory]

They should have finished the phrase:
Blessed "Bi" Satan

[glory]

No doubt friend, no doubt. Rough and even more immoral times ahead.

[xzins]

Blessed Bi

It is clearly a play on the Wiccan words "blessed be."

"You tolerate that woman Jezebel."

[hoosierham]

All have the free will to choose to do good or evil, and to experience the consequences of their choices.

Free will cannot change the natural laws of cause and effect. Free will allows you to jump off a cliff but not to defy gravity.

[jocon307]

"Please explain the date reference??"

Well, I probably should have said "approximately 1968" but it does seem to me that that's the year the lid really came off.

I grew up in Manhattan and until the mid-sixties we lived in peace, the doors of Churches stood open during the day and life was basically normal.

Starting at that time chaos of all varieties seemed to begin to flouish. Divorce was made easily obtainable, crime increased dramitcally and all the churches were locked up tight to guard against theft and assualt. Then RFK and MLK were assissinated (and even if one didn't like or agree with them brutal murder is never a good thing), we had the hippie drug/sex fest "summer of love" and it just seems to me that that's when all this modern dis-harmony started.

Now, I am aware that all the dubious philosophies propounded today have roots that go way back. But it still seems to me that some unarticulated, possible unknown, thing or force took hold of the zeitgeist in 1968 and it has held sway since that time.

But you know, I still live in the NY Metro area, which would included Philly too, broadly speaking, so maybe it's just the Urban East-coasters (and their counterparts on the left coast, of course) who have been nuts for 25 years.

[Scenic Sounds]

Seriously, if we let the pecksniffs make the determination they will make everything but straight sex (no foreplay) in the missionary position in the dark with your clothes on with your legal spouse during a time when conception is likely a sin and preferably a crime.

No foreplay!!

[thathamiltonwoman]

One day when we're all old we'll sit around and talk about how Rich Santorum warned us. ....

[Cvengr]

Yes, He gave man free will. Now how will you use that gift? In obedience to Him or in sin?

[MinuteGal]

Gee, I learned a new word today...."polyamory".

They do come up with some doozies, don't they?

Wonder how soon this catchy appelation will come up in the Sunday New York Times crossword puzzle.

Leni

[Dr Warmoose]

All have the free will to choose to do good or evil...

Isa 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; we all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Rom 7:18-19 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.

Care to amend those words? Or is Scripture lying?

[First Amendment]

It's not a good thing to quote scripture in the attempt to support a position in opposition of the meaning of scripture.

Those verses you quoted were spoken from a position of someone who was experiencing true humility and unworthiness before God. They do not mean that people should give up trying to serve the will of God, if that's what you're trying to imply.

[First Amendment]

Well, I probably should have said "approximately 1968" but it does seem to me that that's the year the lid really came off.

I've seen very interesting statistics - I may have them somewhere; I'm REALLY bad at computer use and so it's hard for me to save or find anything, :( - but the social fabric actually began to fray at the same time TV became available and widely watched. Every soical indicator - crime, divorce, sexual immorality, unwed motherhood, and some others - were at a basically flat line until the mid 50's. The watching of TV and all those social ills went up at the same rate at the same time.

The mass indoctrination of population? What are the values, beliefs, and philosophies of the small group of people who write the TV shows, produce them, and write the "news"? A tiny percentage of the population is feeding the minds of the vast majority.

BTW, I've had a TV a total of about 1 or 2 years in the last (figure it out) - since I left home at 16 (early 50's now.)

[First Amendment]

Now returning to the article. I bet that it would be impossible to find a true five point Calvinist who teaches that the saved can engage in the hedonism and vile perversity that regularly is tolerated and accepted in the FWT community. The passages referenced above are prooftexts that indicate that many of those who claim to "believe in Jesus because of their own Free Will" will also use that same free will to believe anything else that they want to believe.

I can see that you have a lot of knowledge concerning finer points of various Christian sects, that I am ignorant of, so I would appreciate it if you could explain your position more clearly, in slightly more simple layman's language, for people like me who are not knowledgeable about the FWT people and five point Calvinists. I apologize if I misunderstood you in my last post to you.

I am not trying to be challenging, I am out of my field of understanding when discussing Christian sects.

[First Amendment]

Let's face it. Americans are not going to put up with a Govt that decides it is going to become the sex police and regulate what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms.

I can't understand why you insist that Santorum's statement - and the many Americans who agree with him - want to have police on a "seach and destroy" mission against behavior which is practiced in secrecy. This is a straw man argument. The whole purpose of anti-sodomy laws is to keep such behavior out of the mainstream, out of the public view. That way fewer people will be seduced into it, and if such sodomy practitioners try their skills in, say, public bathrooms they can then be arrested. Why don't you see this? Why are you so attracted to the idea of sodomy and/or same sex acts being protected?

[Servant of the Nine]

Yes, He gave man free will. Now how will you use that gift? In obedience to Him or in sin?

Yes, God gave man a gift and you are trying to steal it or destroy it.
You must be very proud of yourself.

So9

[Conservative til I die]

Speaking of trans-sexuals and poly-amory, an interesting thing I learned from the Jerry Springer show is that trans-sexuals like to date and sleep with only heterosexual males. It was actually a Springer-worthy segment when a gay guy came out and said he was about to tell his trans-sexual lover that he's really not straight. My head was spinning. These people are so F'ed in the head and soul.

[jocon307]

"BTW, I've had a TV a total of about 1 or 2 years in the last (figure it out) - since I left home at 16"

You are indeed a rare bird. My brother was like that, he never had a tv. Me, I have the TV on all the times, except in the mornings before I go to work, but I don't actually watch it. It's like the "hearth" to me.

[gogeo]

He clearly addressed the issue of privacy when it came to sex between consenting adults in the context of the sodomy case...and warned about the "dangers" of saying adultery and homosexuality were OK. Now unless he was advocating the sex police busting down the bedroom doors of consenting adults and arresting them for acts of adultery and homosexuality, then his point is moot. And he should have thought before he spoke.

Not true, Jorge...his comments were aimed at the anticipated Supreme Court ruling. It was speculated that, much as Roe V Wade was decided upon a "constitutional right to privacy," anti-sodomy laws could be overturned on the same basis. He correctly said that if anti-sodomy laws could be overturned on the basis of a "privacy right," then no law limiting sexual activity could pass constitutional muster. That includes pedophilia, polygamy, incest, and animal sex.

This is not the same as supporting anti-sodomy laws. Justice Thomas said that while he did not support anti-sodomy laws and considered them to be "stupid," he could find no basis for declaring them unconstitutional.

[gogeo]

Those controls were already in place before drugs were made illegal in this country. Did you even read my post? I said, "Trust me, I don't refrain from drug abuse because certain drugs are illegal, nor would I start using them if they were legalized. Social opprobrium, a love for my family and my own body are what keep me from abusing myself with drugs. It has nothing to do with the laws passed by corrupted legislators."

Sorry to be the one to break it to you...not everything is about you, and not everybody thinks the way you do. There are people who are restrained by questions of legality.