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To: Congressman Billybob
There were zero to none combat deaths among the American troops who occupied Germany after WWII. Our troop presence there wasn't because we feared a reborn Germany but a Communist Russia. Please provide a list of casualties who died due to "guerilla attacks" in Germany after the formal close of battle? How many Americans died in the immediate months of our occupation due to Nazi die harder attacks?
4 posted on 09/04/2003 9:02:16 PM PDT by Burkeman1 ((If you see ten troubles comin down the road, Nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.))
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To: Burkeman1
Your insane if you think every German just dropped his arms after Hitler was gone. Get reeeal !
5 posted on 09/04/2003 9:04:48 PM PDT by John Lenin (Cowards die many times before their deaths, The valiant never taste of death but once.)
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To: Burkeman1
That's nice, but how many Nazis did we kill to get there, and how many Americans died?

Let me just put my cards on the table, how may soliders are we willing to lose in this conflict? 100, 300, 1000, Zero?

We are fighting for our lives. The Second World War killed millions. Does anyone seriously doubt that the Muslim terrorists we fight will settle for less? Does anyone seriously think they'll settle for millions?

The purpose of an Army is to kill people and break things, and, apologies to Rush, it is also to die for the rest of us. That is why those who fight get our ultimate respect. But stop with this quisling crap, we've got to continue to kill these people, and some of our people will die trying, or they will kill us.

THEY WILL, THEY HAVE, THEY LIVE TO DO IT.
9 posted on 09/04/2003 9:13:30 PM PDT by jocon307 (Boy, even I am surprised at myself!)
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To: Burkeman1
There were zero to none combat deaths among the American troops who occupied Germany after WWII. Our troop presence there wasn't because we feared a reborn Germany but a Communist Russia. Please provide a list of casualties who died due to "guerilla attacks" in Germany after the formal close of battle? How many Americans died in the immediate months of our occupation due to Nazi die harder attacks?


History TodayOct, 2000Minutemen of the Third Reich.(history of the Nazi Werewolf guerilla movement)
Author/s: Perry Biddiscombe

AS WORRIES INCREASE about neo-Nazi and skinhead violence in Germany, it is worth remembering that this type of terrorism is a nasty constant in the history of the German radical-right. A case in point is the Nazi Werewolf guerrilla movement founded by Heinrich Himmler in 1044, which fought the occupying forces of Britain, America and Russia until at least 1047.

The Werewolves were originally organised by the SS and the Hitler Youth as a diversionary operation on the fringes of the Third Reich, which were occupied by the Western Allies and the Soviets in the autumn of 1944. Some 5,000 -- 6,000 recruits were raised by the winter of 1944-45, but numbers rose considerably in the following spring when the Nazi Party and the Propaganda Ministry launched a popular call to arms, beseeching everybody in the occupied areas -- even women and children -- to launch themselves upon the enemy. In typical Nazi fashion, this expansion was not co-ordinated by the relevant bodies, which were instead involved in a bureaucratic war among themselves over control of the project. The result was that the movement functioned on two largely unrelated levels: the first as a real force of specially trained SS, Hitler Youth and Nazi Party guerrillas; the second as an outlet for casual violence by fanatics.

The Werewolves specialised in ambushes and sniping, and took the lives of many Allied and Soviet soldiers and officers -- perhaps even that of the first Soviet commandant of Berlin, General N.E. Berzarin, who was rumoured to have been waylaid in Charlottenburg during an incident in June 1945. Buildings housing Allied and Soviet staffs were favourite targets for Werewolf bombings; an explosion in the Bremen police headquarters, also in June 1945, killed five Americans and thirty-nine Germans. Techniques for harassing the occupiers were given widespread publicity through Werewolf leaflets and radio propaganda, and long after May 1945 the sabotage methods promoted by the Werewolves were still being used against the occupying powers.

Although the Werewolves originally limited themselves to guerrilla warfare with the invading armies, they soon began to undertake scorched-earth measures and vigilante actions against German `collaborators' or `defeatists'. They damaged Germany's economic infrastructure, already battered by Allied bombing and ground fighting, and tried to prevent anything of value from falling into enemy hands. Attempts to blow up factories, power plants or waterworks occasionally provoked melees between Werewolves and desperate German workers trying to save the physical basis of their employment, particularly in the Ruhr and Upper Silesia.

Several sprees of vandalism through stocks of art and antiques, stored by the Berlin Museum in a flak tower at Friedrichshain, caused millions of dollars worth of damage and cultural losses of inestimable value. In addition, vigilante attacks caused the deaths of a number of small-town mayors and, in late March 1945, a Werewolf paratroop squad assassinated the Lord Mayor of Aachen, Dr Franz Oppenhoff, probably the most prominent German statesman to have emerged in the occupied fringes over the winter of 1944-45. This spate of killings, part of a larger Nazi terror campaign that consumed the Third Reich after the failed anti-Hitler putsch of July 20th, 1944, can be interpreted as a psychological retreat back into opposition, even while Nazi leaders were still clinging to their last few months of power.

Although the Werewolves managed to make themselves a nuisance to small Allied and Soviet units, they failed to stop or delay the invasion and occupation of Germany, and did not succeed in rousing the population into widespread opposition to the new order. The SS and Hitler Youth organisations at the core of the Werewolf movement were poorly led, short of supplies and weapons, and crippled by infighting. Their mandate was a conservative one of tactical harassment, at least until the final days of the war, and even when they did begin to envision the possibility of an underground resistance that could survive the Third Reich's collapse, they had to contend with widespread civilian war-weariness and fear of enemy reprisals. In Western Germany, no one wanted to do anything that would diminish the pace of Anglo-American advance and possibly thereby allow the Red Army to push further westward.

Despite its failure, however, the Werewolf project had a huge impact, widening the psychological and spiritual gap between Germans and their occupiers. Werewolf killings and intimidation of `collaborators' scared almost everybody, giving German civilians a clear glimpse into the nihilistic heart of Nazism. It was difficult for people working under threat of such violence to devote themselves unreservedly to the initial tasks of reconstruction. Worse still, the Allies and Soviets reacted to the movement with extremely tough controls, curtailing the right of assembly of German civilians. Challenges of any sort were met by collective reprisals -- especially on the part of the Soviets and the French. In a few cases the occupiers even shot hostages and cleared out towns where instances of sabotage occurred. It was standard practice for the Soviets to destroy whole communities if they faced a single act of resistance. In the eastern fringes of the `Greater Reich', now annexed by the Poles and the Czechoslovaks, Werewolf harassment handed the new authorities an excuse to rush the deportations of millions of ethnic Germans to occupied Germany.

Such policies were understandable, but they created an unbridgeable gulf between the German people and the occupation forces who had pledged to impose essential reforms. It was hard, in such conditions, for the occupiers to encourage reform, and even harder to persuade the Germans that it was necessary.

By the time that this rough opposition to the occupation had started to soften, the Cold War was under way and reform became equally difficult to implement. As a result, both German states created in 1949 were not so dissimilar to their predecessor as might have been hoped, and changes in attitudes and institutions developed only slowly. Thanks partly to the Werewolves there was no German revolution in 1945, either imposed from above or generated from below.

You can either learn your history, or you can STFU, mister.


11 posted on 09/04/2003 9:15:00 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Burkeman1
This will be an interesting thread for you:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971959/posts

Specifically from that thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971959/posts?q=1&&page=101#112

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971959/posts?q=1&&page=1#2

I'd rather the terrorists gather in one place where they face well trained, well armed soldiers rather than take on civilians who are unarmed and not trained.

Additionally, in post war Germany, Hitler supporters were killing our soldiers in numbers that are hard to pin down, but it went on for years. Their favorite method was stringing wire across roadways and garrotting our soldiers. A recent History Channel program devoted an entire show to the matter.


2 posted on 08/28/2003 6:26 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)





15 posted on 09/04/2003 9:24:22 PM PDT by bootless (Never Forget)
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To: Burkeman1
There were zero to none combat deaths among the American troops who occupied Germany after WWII. Please provide a list of casualties who died due to "guerilla attacks" in Germany after the formal close of battle?

That is a HIGHLY distorted view of the allied occupation of Germany in 1945. The Allies included the Soviet Union. How many ALLIED combat troops were attacked (include attacks on Russians in your numbers). Your list of casualties must include RUSSIAN casualties as they were an Allied occupying power in addition to the US, Britain, and France.

22 posted on 09/04/2003 9:39:12 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Burkeman1
How many Americans died in the immediate months of our occupation due to Nazi die harder attacks? One who really counted--George Patton. Yeah, I know they said it was an "accident".
23 posted on 09/04/2003 9:39:18 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Burkeman1
Both Rice and Rumsfeld consistently used the term attacks on "allied troops" in the article. You switched it to "American troops" because you know there were significant attacks on Russian troops in the Berlin area after the declared end of the war. Everything they said was factually accurate.
25 posted on 09/04/2003 9:42:55 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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