How to Answer the AWOL Accusation

[forktail]

I keep reading/hearing about Bush's year of being AWOL from the Air National Guard. I can't find anything on the net that disputes this accusation.

Is there anything out there?

[ChadsDad]

The answer is "And this matters why?" There are plenty of real issues...

[forktail]

Because I am tired of hearing it.
Because we are at war.
Because I'd like to be able to stuff something down their throats.
Because in '04 this, the "stolen election," the 16 words, the lack of WMDs and the rest will be a non-fucking-stop din

[At _War_With_Liberals]

If this was true, do you really think the left media machine would have given him a pass for the last 4 years?

It would be repeated every day if true, especially after the carrier landing.

[fortaydoos]

IF President Bush was AWOL, so what? He is present now and serving proudly.

[Texas_Jarhead]

I'd be interested in an informed answer as well.

[for-q-clinton]

IF President Bush was AWOL, so what? He is present now and serving proudly.

So I assume you also supported Prez Clintoon dodging the draft?

I'm not saying Bush was AWOL, but if he was it is a serious issue. I don't think there's any records showing that he was AWOL, but how do you prove a negative? The argument is a no winner. Either they need to put up real proof, in which case why hasn't the left-wing media ran with it?

Or you can answer it like this? I have an article saying President Clinton is a pedophile! If you don't believe me prove that he's not a pedophile. See it can't be done so you dismiss the entire arugment because it's not substantiated.

[Brandon]

My understanding (I do not have a url to back this up) is that Bush did miss some scheduled drill weekend when he was in the Guard. However, the rules at the time allowed a Guardsman to make up the time, as long as they did it in the same quarter, which Bush did.

To my way of thinking, if that account is correct, that is not an unblemished record, but it is a far cry from AWOL.

[Rokke]

I am in the Guard now. Unless you have been put on active duty orders (very rare) it is almost impossible to go "AWOL" from the Guard. You are supposed to attend a drill weekend each month, but those are not always mandatory. As a pilot, things are a little more flexible because there are more pilots than jets in a unit, so not everyone can show up at the same time. It is left to the individual to ensure he is present enough to get his training done. You have a commitment to accomplish a certain amount of training, and the Guard will pay you as you show up to do it. If you don't show up, you don't get paid. Eventually, your unit will probably ask (then tell) you to leave. It's your loss.

[reformedliberal]

I believe President Bush's honorable discharge was posted at one point to refute this claim. The point being that anyone who was actually officially AWOL would not have received an honorable discharge.

IIRC, a scan of the actual official discharge was posted here on FR. Perhaps some knowledgable FReeper could post a link.

IF this was actually true, does anyone think it wouldn't be all over the media 24/7/365? But it isn't. It is only found on the hate-filled anti-Bush sites and in rumors IRL.

Also, I seem to recall that the reason given for why he was absent was to work on a political campaign. I can't recall if he actually had or asked permission to be absent.

[ChadsDad]

My point is/was that this is the statement that you make to them: "Your entire question is irrelevent, I don't see how this could matter to the issues we face as a society today." Then look 'em right in the eye...and, quietly, calmly, tell them to "Shut The F### Up!"

[RipSawyer]

"The point being that anyone who was actually officially AWOL would not have received an honorable discharge."

Actually, plenty of people have been AWOL and received an honorable discharge. I think you are confusing AWOL which means absent without leave and desertion which means you leave with the intent of never returning. Penalties for AWOL are relatively mild, penalties for desertion have ranged from dishonorable discharge all the way to imprisonment and or execution.

[ctlpdad]

just ask the questioner to substantiate the claim. They won't be able to. If you would like, ask why it is of such concern, because their buddy Clinton was actually convicted on federal charges of draft dodging, then pardoned by Carter.

[kayak]

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either

Though this is a FreeRepublic thread, I actually found it through snopes.com, an excellent source for confirming or debunking information. I recommend bookmarking it ..... :-)

snopes.com

[Wolverine]

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39ea05224b3e.htm

[carlo3b]

Clinton's not a pedophile?? Just Damn! Are you sure?

[Wolverine]

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either

See #15

[ravingnutter]

The claim:

From May 1, 1972 until April 30, 1973 -- a period of twelve months -- there are no days shown, though Bush should have logged at least thirty-six days service (a weekend per month in addition to two weeks at camp).

The truth:

In May of 1968 Mr. Bush enlisted and was chosen for training as an Air Force pilot. Critics have noted that he got into pilot training despite poor initial testing, suggesting that someone on the inside helped move him to the top of the list. The Globe interviewed National Guard officials who said it was because few National Guard enlistees were willing to commit to the required 18 months of flight training and that put them higher on the list.

In November of 1969, the future president completed flight training and was assigned to become an F-102 fighter pilot assigned to Ellington Air Force Base.

Until his fifth year of National Guard duty, there is no question about his service. The Globe says those who served with Mr. Bush regarded him as a top pilot and that he spent more time on active duty than was minimally required for reservists. In the first four years of of his six-year commitment, he spent the equivalent of 21 months on duty.

In May of 1972, George W. Bush moved to Alabama to help in a U.S. Senate campaign and requested permission to serve in a unit in that state. His superiors, however, later said they did not approve of that unit because it didn't do much. There were no drills or exercises. The unit's commander told the Boston Globe that it had no airplanes and essentially met one weeknight per month. The Globe says that months apparently went by without resolution to Mr. Bush's status and, therefore, no guard duty.

Technically, without new orders, he was still a part of his unit in Texas, but he was living in Alabama. Mr. Bush was eventually assigned to a unit in Montgomery, but two of the officers from the unit told the Boston Globe they do not recall his ever showing up. During that time, he failed to take his annual pilot's physical examination and was removed from flight status. A Bush spokesman told the Globe that Mr. Bush does recall doing some duty in Alabama.

On another occasion, a representative for the president said that Bush made up for any time that was lost by participating in other drills.

But his service records show about a year in which there is no report of duty.

From May to July of 1973, the records show that Mr. Bush did log 36 days of active duty. He was granted an honorable discharge in October of 1973.

Truth or Fiction

The 36 so- called "missing days" were logged between May and July of 1973, right before his HONORABLE discharge...so, yes, he did make up the time. Also, there is the fact that he spent more time on active duty than required during his first four years. Their claims are baseless.

[kayak]

Actually, snopes.com refutes that story, also.

"However, the timeline quoted above jumps the tracks when it labels Clinton a "felon," because none of his actions, no matter how unethical or morally reprehensible, were illegal."

(Read the link to see what 'timeline' is being referenced.)

[carlo3b]

I believed it was pretty well covered in this story http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-5_15_01_TB2.html