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The note Rush read today, re. Germany post WWII:
DoD briefing - SOD Rumsfeld, 9/16 ^ | Sept. 18, 2003

Posted on 09/18/2003 10:53:55 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl

This is the note sent to Rush from an officer in Iraq, read on his radio show today:

***

"If you compare the progress in Iraq to what happened in Germany after World War II, I'm told that in Germany it took three years to get an independent central bank. In Iraq it took two months. To get German police established, it took 14 months. In Iraq, two months. To get a new German currency, three years. In Iraq, two and a half months. To have a German cabinet, 14 months. In Iraq, four months. So some things are being achieved at a good clip."

DoD News Briefing - Secretary Rumsfeld and Gen. Pace
Dept of Defense ^ | 9/16/03 | Rumsfeld, Pace, media



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: rebuildingiraq; rush; werewolfguerrillas; werewolves; wwii

1 posted on 09/18/2003 10:53:56 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
"If you compare the progress in Iraq to what happened in Germany after World War II, "

You might also consider that Germany was conquered then completely occupied by US, France, England, and Russia. Iraq was liberated but there is still a guerilla war going on. Germany is not a model for Iraq expectations.

2 posted on 09/18/2003 11:10:29 AM PDT by ex-snook (Americans needs PROTECTIONISM - military and economic.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
While the progress in Iraq is to be commended, comparing them to Germany is akin to comparing apples to oranges.

Germany's infrastucture and economy was pretty much obliterated during the war.

Germany's exports were mostly manufactured goods and the factories were destroyed. It took a long time to rebuild and retool from a war-making industry to regular industry.

Iraq exports oil and the wells, refineries and pipelines have pretty much been left intact.

3 posted on 09/18/2003 11:14:11 AM PDT by FReepaholic (www.september-11-videos.com Never Forget.)
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To: tscislaw
Germany was not wholly controlled by the U.S. but Japan was. Japan had free parliamentary elections in April 1946, only eight months are Hiroshima! Elections are not even planned in Iraq by comparsion.
4 posted on 09/18/2003 11:25:58 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: ex-snook
Today's society wants immediate results, even when it is foolish and unreasonable. Iraq is being put back together very quickly and effeciently, despite all smears to the contrary.

There are desperate guerilla elements that would rather die than see us succeed. That is unsettling, but they will be a thorn in our side for only so long. At some point, the war reconstruction will be done, and a new government and social order will take over. Once people see that their lives are better without Saddam, attitudes will change. It is the aim of the U.S. to make that happen. We will have to enforce good government and responsible spending at the point of the bayonet for some time, much longer than the Adminstration is admitting. We can't have Iraq sliding into a theocracy or another dictatorship, and we need to ensure that their oil money is spent wisely.

In the long term, the game is rigged to succeed. At some point, Iraqis will begin to travel, and ideas will spread. Syrians will wonder why they don't have free speech, Saudis will want accountable government, and a righteous upheavel will take place in the Arab world. Before all that, however, we need to set an example for them to follow. We've built nations before, and despite what any government official tells you, we'll be in Iraq long enough to get the job done.

5 posted on 09/18/2003 11:31:34 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Too close for guns, switching to missiles!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
What people purposely forget is that the war in Iraq is not yet over because this stage of the war on TERROR is not yet over. Only PITCHED MILITARY ACTION is over.

As for Iraq's infrastructure, it had almost none before the coalition invasion. Iraq's infrastructure was a WRECK when the coalition rolled through.

It is a MYTH that Saddam kept the trains running on time. In fact, it's a myth that Iraqis in general are "well educated". The Iraqi education system, such as it was, was nothing more than his combination of the Hitler/Stalin indoctrination system. The GOOD educations were reserved for Ba'athist thugs and Arab foreigners. Even at that, the only way up through the Ba'athist ranks wasn't intelligence or education : it was how good a little comrade you were.

We're doing fine in Iraq. We are definitely on schedule, rebuilding and in many cases building from scratch, in good time and in good order.

6 posted on 09/18/2003 11:33:55 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Steel Wolf
There were desperate guerrilla elements in germany too, called "the werewolves," and many american soldiers were killed by them, for several months.
8 posted on 09/18/2003 11:50:41 AM PDT by MLedeen
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To: MLedeen
I've heard that is not true. Do you have any links that state the number of casualities from the werewolves following Germany's surrender?
9 posted on 09/18/2003 11:53:25 AM PDT by Gladwin
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To: Steel Wolf
We are doing a very good job and the right strategy for IRAQ....but it is only the beginning of the road to Victory. Only with continued moral and spiritual strength will we succeed. In the meantime we can just keep the word going, the powder dry and never forget who are the enemies of Freedom. BTW, I now keep a EoF (Enemies of Freedom)list.
10 posted on 09/18/2003 12:00:37 PM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero)
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To: tscislaw
Iraq exports oil and the wells, refineries and pipelines have pretty much been left intact.

No. Saddam let the infrastructure deteriorate. It's a mess all over the country. It was also looted for copper, etc. Our troops - with the help of Iraqi engineers, are rebuilding, reprogramming, retooling, rewiring...have been for months. Making steady progress.

11 posted on 09/18/2003 12:02:31 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("Don't they care about the Iraqi people ..at all?"~Sama in Iraq, re. those pushing US to leave, 9/17)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
SPOTREP
12 posted on 09/18/2003 12:14:15 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
>>...No. Saddam let the infrastructure deteriorate. It's a mess all over the country. It was also looted for copper, etc...<<

Well, you're right. I guess I was referencing "war damage" which supposedly we did not target thier infrastructure.

However, oil is thier economy and as I understand it, aside from the occasional terrorist attack, the oil if flowing.

13 posted on 09/18/2003 12:56:56 PM PDT by FReepaholic (www.september-11-videos.com Never Forget.)
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To: tscislaw
Germany's infrastucture and economy was pretty much obliterated during the war.

Well I hate to tell you but there is VIRTUALLY NO reliable or working infrastructure other than BAGHDAD. What we are doing in IRAQ is a friggin miracle.

14 posted on 09/18/2003 1:04:31 PM PDT by PISANO
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; Registered
To get a new German currency, three years. In Iraq, two and a half months.

Heck, Registered had that taken care of before the war:


15 posted on 09/18/2003 1:08:57 PM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: Sloth
That's a work of art, Sloth.

They can use it in the new CavMart in Baghdad.

An earlier conversation re. post WWII Germany:

8 The Werewolf Principle [Post-war Germany Hitler regime 'deadenders']

The left is trying real hard to discount the comparisons, but there are many. Except, the US troops rebuilding Germany didn't have to act as bait for foreign nutcases in a world with high speed communications, WMDs.

16 posted on 09/18/2003 1:51:48 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("Don't they care about the Iraqi people..at all?"~Sama in Iraq, re. those pushing US to leave, 9/17)
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To: ex-snook
Iraq was liberated but there is still a guerilla war going on. Germany is not a model for Iraq expectations.

Except that in the months after the end of the war with Germany there were guerilla operations going on against the Allies and against Germans working with them. Besides, no one said that Germany is a model for Iraq expectations. The point is that people are bitching about things in Iraq that have been taken care of in less time than in Germany after WWII. The only thing one can do is to compare a current conflict and its aftermath with previous ones. There is nothing untoward with doing so.
17 posted on 09/18/2003 1:56:18 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
"Except that in the months after the end of the war with Germany there were guerilla operations going on against the Allies and against Germans working with them."

I would like to see the source reference for Germany guerilla operations. I was there and there was none in Bavaria or Austria. The months after the end of the German war we were ready for possible deployment to the Pacific and the Germans were not screwing around with us. (maybe in the Russia area but not the US). This is urban legend without specific sources.

18 posted on 09/18/2003 4:30:14 PM PDT by ex-snook (Americans needs PROTECTIONISM - military and economic.)
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To: aruanan
"Except that in the months after the end of the war with Germany there were guerilla operations going on against the Allies and against Germans working with them."

I would like to see the source reference for Germany guerilla operations. I was there and there was none in Bavaria or Austria. The months after the end of the German war we were ready for possible deployment to the Pacific and the Germans were not screwing around with us. (maybe in the Russia area but not the US). This is urban legend without specific sources.

19 posted on 09/18/2003 4:35:52 PM PDT by ex-snook (Americans needs PROTECTIONISM - military and economic.)
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To: MLedeen
What's more, there are terrorists who are being labeled "guerrillas" by the media and agitprop types. Some domestic and some coming in from other nations.

Imagine if the communists from Russia were acting as "werewolves" in post WWII Germany. Some disrupters have no ties to the conquored, they just happen to share a common enemy with those stationed in the nation.

I also keep hearing, when will we be out of Iraq? What's our exit strategy. When will we be out of Kosovo? When will we be out of South Korea? When will we be out of Germany?

20 posted on 09/18/2003 4:42:50 PM PDT by weegee
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To: ex-snook
I would like to see the source reference for Germany guerilla operations. This is urban legend without specific sources.

Try HERE for an article by Alexander Perry Biddiscombe and HERE for a description of his book Werwolf!: The History of the National Socialist Guerrilla Movement, 1944-1946.
21 posted on 09/18/2003 5:03:12 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
Sorry. I'm looking for sources that lists the dates, units, and locations. What you cited were just about revisionist history. I want to see GI deaths specified so that verification is possible. I would like to see if he lists any units with which I am familiar. If deaths can't be verified, it is just urban legend.
22 posted on 09/18/2003 5:12:39 PM PDT by ex-snook (Americans needs PROTECTIONISM - military and economic.)
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To: ex-snook
Sorry. I'm looking for sources that lists the dates, units, and locations. What you cited were just about revisionist history. I want to see GI deaths specified so that verification is possible. I would like to see if he lists any units with which I am familiar. If deaths can't be verified, it is just urban legend.

Well, I'll check out this book that is here in the university's library, the one published by the University of Toronto, and see what is there.
23 posted on 09/18/2003 7:28:46 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: ex-snook
I am reading Beevor's epic work - "The Fall of Berlin 1945" right now. It has just dropped off the first row bookshelves where it stayed for six months and now sells for nine bucks at major bookstores - I got mine at Barnes and Noble.

If you are interested in this era, it is a must have.

Beevor devotes only three pages of his 500 page work to "Werwolf".The reason being, it was not an important movement.

It was a loose plan that never really materialized and was more propaganda put out by theNazis during their last days.

On page 175 he writes -

"Ultimately, Werwolf achieved very little, apart from a couple of assasinations - the mayors of Aachen and Krankenhagen - and the intimidation of civilians."

On the same page:

"In the west, the allies found that Werwolf was a fiasco."

24 posted on 09/18/2003 7:58:07 PM PDT by spectre
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To: spectre
""In the west, the allies found that Werwolf was a fiasco." "

Thanks for your research. Any Werwolf activity in the US Zone was a zero. Some writers, quoting writers, quoting other writers about the existence of the Werwolfs at one time is not the same thing as documenting any GI killings done by the Werwolfs (which was the point of the Iraq comparisons).

25 posted on 09/19/2003 7:04:27 AM PDT by ex-snook (Americans needs PROTECTIONISM - military and economic.)
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To: ex-snook
I have asked the same question about casualities numbers many times and have come and never get a straight answer. I have come to the conclusion that advocates of the werewolf theory simply don't care about evidence.
26 posted on 09/19/2003 7:35:52 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright; Ragtime Cowgirl
" have come to the conclusion that advocates of the werewolf theory simply don't care about evidence. "

It's because they can't produce any evidence of GI killings. If Rush made this point then Rush has taken a hit on his 'accuracy %". BTW is is Werewolf or Werwolf??

27 posted on 09/19/2003 7:45:01 AM PDT by ex-snook (Americans needs PROTECTIONISM - military and economic.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
The Demonocrats have been running so far left that they won’t be able to get a hold of the center during the real campaign. I am hoping too that they are doing this in fear of Nader returning.

Come November of 04 we could see a 55-45 Senate, more House seat pickups and a new mandate for the administration.

Teddy Kennedy, the Old Fat Bastard and beached whale, made me happy if for no other reason that his noise to me idicates a political party in trouble.

28 posted on 09/19/2003 7:54:27 AM PDT by Helms ("Nietzsche's critique of ressentiment - the "self-poisoned mind" - fits Islam like a glove")
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