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Thinking small, Free State Project hopes for big things
Palm Beach [FL] Press Journal ^ | 22 SPT 2003 | Kenric Ward

Posted on 09/24/2003 12:15:27 PM PDT by archy

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1 posted on 09/24/2003 12:15:28 PM PDT by archy
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To: AAABEST; A.J.Armitage; archy; bc2; Beck_isright; Jack Black; bootless; claidheamh mor; ...
PorcuPing!

-archy-/-

2 posted on 09/24/2003 12:16:06 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
I wish they would pick North Carolina. I already live here and wouldn't have to move!
3 posted on 09/24/2003 12:18:41 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: Phantom Lord
I wish they would pick North Carolina. I already live here and wouldn't have to move!

Give it time. If it works in the first state, it'll spread to others. It may come to NC sooner than you expect.

-archy-/-

4 posted on 09/24/2003 12:28:53 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
bump
5 posted on 09/24/2003 12:32:03 PM PDT by RippleFire
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To: archy
bump-o-rama

Again, New Hampshire and Wyoming. I can get my Dad to move to New Hampshire, but I'm not so sure about Wyoming.

Hell, after reading the FSP State Reports, he made me promise him I'd go with him to visit New Hampshire before the winter sets in!

For Liberty and the Constitution!
6 posted on 09/24/2003 12:40:07 PM PDT by bc2 (http://www.thinkforyourself.us)
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To: archy
Think small, act not at all.

That would be a more appropriate headline to this continuing silliness. Even if this "project" could manage to move the whole 20K folks into a state like Wyoming, it would make no difference to the outcome of statewide elections. Not a bit of difference.

On the other hand, Wyoming would have the highest per capita population of LINUX consultants in the USA, I'm sure.

7 posted on 09/24/2003 12:40:26 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
But just last year, a move of say 200 such people (presuming that they would vote the right way) would have elected another Republican Senator in South Dakota, and would have made Sen. Daschle deeply concerned.

This concept is actually the mirroe image of what the Democrats have actually done: drive out the most prductive peope from the smallest states and get 2 senators for each such miniscule state for not much expense.

8 posted on 09/24/2003 12:48:48 PM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: Phantom Lord
I wish they would pick North Carolina. I already live here and wouldn't have to move!

For those of us who are not in a position to move, a "free district" project would be a nice assistance to their effort. If we could elect many "libertarians" or "constitutionalists" from our states, any efforts that the "free state" made could be assisted by supportive federal votes from our districts.

Notice that I used a little L and a little C in those descriptions above. I do not necessarily mean members of the Libertarian or Constitutional Parties, but people with libertarian or constitutional beliefs.

"Libertarians" have a VERY bad reputations. Perverts and druggies, basically. I consider myself a "libertarian" in the same sense as the Founding Fathers. You leave me alone and I leave you alone! Free association, the government operating on Constitutional mandates and NO others, government doing it's job of defending citizens from enemies, but NOT acting as nannies.

If the Libertarian Party wants to make REAL progress, it will drop it's "pro-abortion" stance (pro-abortion is contrary to the ONLY ligitimate function of government which is the defense of life from emenies foriegn and domestic.)

9 posted on 09/24/2003 1:12:24 PM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: archy
For a discussion by skeptical soverign individuals/market anarchists:


http://anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=7028


The third post has links to still more threads.

10 posted on 09/24/2003 1:30:32 PM PDT by society-by-contract
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To: archy
Keep sending those press releases out, and we'll have 20,000 FRee Staters REAL SOON NOW! I think this concept will come together nicely, sooner rather than later.

11 posted on 09/24/2003 2:17:45 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: MineralMan
You need to look closer at Wyoming. An influx could easily take over the reins of government in some counties and small cities. That would be a change. Because it leans libertarian already I think 20,000 activists could make a difference. After all this is how the Socialists get their programs through. Go to slightly left leaning states like NY and Cali and elect far lefters and drag the whole state with them to socialist hell. Why can't it work in reverse for liberty?
12 posted on 09/24/2003 2:26:26 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: MineralMan
Whichever state gets them will have a few more slobbed up yards with junked cars, broken appliances and superannuated trailers laying around in them. They might see a small increase in whining screeds sent to the editor decrying their inability to open burn plastic and rubber trash as well, but thats about all the impact you'll see.
13 posted on 09/24/2003 2:30:24 PM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (All eyes were on Ford Prefect. Some of them were on stalks.)
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To: MineralMan
You need to look closer at Wyoming. An influx could easily take over the reins of government in some counties and small cities. That would be a change. Because it leans libertarian already I think 20,000 activists could make a difference. After all this is how the Socialists get their programs through. Go to slightly left leaning states like NY and Cali and elect far lefters and drag the whole state with them to socialist hell. Why can't it work in reverse for liberty?
14 posted on 09/24/2003 2:30:40 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
"You need to look closer at Wyoming. An influx could easily take over the reins of government in some counties and small cities. That would be a change. Because it leans libertarian already I think 20,000 activists could make a difference. After all this is how the Socialists get their programs through. Go to slightly left leaning states like NY and Cali and elect far lefters and drag the whole state with them to socialist hell. Why can't it work in reverse for liberty?
"

I did look closely at Wyoming during a past thread. While an influx could alter local (city and county) elections and possibly even a few state legislative positions, it's clear that 20K voters would not alter any statewide election results nor affect any elections for that state's congressional or senate elections.

Locally or county-wide offices could be affected in any area by 20K persons. It happens all the time in cities with major universities, when students register and vote en masse.

You can go have a look at Wyoming election returns and you'll see that what I am saying is correct. Google "Wyoming election returns" to find the link.

15 posted on 09/24/2003 2:33:23 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I like your use of the word "superannuated" in your posting.

Since you think this is obviously a bad idea what are your suggestions for turning the tide of creeping Hillaryism? Just curious.

I'm not a Libertarian party member, and I probably consider myself more of a conservative than libertarian in terms of political philosophy but it seems a worthwhile attempt to create positive change.

Working to elect Republicans in Oregon certainly hasn't been a good use of time. The R's just caved and increased the income tax here. Bush, well I'm glad he's in there and not the other guy, but he's not exactly Barry Goldwater II, now is he?

So if we, the citizen frogs, are not to be gradually boiled in the hot water of creeping socialism SOMETHING different has to happen. If this is a bad idea, or a useless one, what's a good one?

16 posted on 09/24/2003 2:35:36 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
"So if we, the citizen frogs, are not to be gradually boiled in the hot water of creeping socialism SOMETHING different has to happen. If this is a bad idea, or a useless one, what's a good one?"

That's a very good question, and one that doesn't seem to have a good answer at the moment. This Free State thing is simply not going to work, though. There just aren't enough people involved to make it work. It's doubtful if they will ever reach their goal of 20K, and that's not nearly enough.

It took a long time to get where we are, and it will probably take a long time to get somewhere else.
17 posted on 09/24/2003 2:47:08 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Jack Black
Try being more cheerful, less gloomy, less prickly, less sensitive for starters.
18 posted on 09/24/2003 2:47:36 PM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (All eyes were on Ford Prefect. Some of them were on stalks.)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Wyoming is the place. More conservative and libertarian than any place in the Union. The only mistake they ever made was woman voting. They have tried to live it down ever since by voting conservative.
19 posted on 09/24/2003 3:12:14 PM PDT by meenie
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To: meenie
I vote for Delaware. Flat, undeveloped, conservative (in the rural parts), only three counties to memorize, beauuuutiful beaches, mild winters (ok, stinkin' hot summers), and chickens! What more could a person ask for? Seriously, though, I think it's the best kept secret on the East Coast.
20 posted on 09/24/2003 4:21:48 PM PDT by DC native
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To: MineralMan
That would be a more appropriate headline to this continuing silliness. Even if this "project" could manage to move the whole 20K folks into a state like Wyoming, it would make no difference to the outcome of statewide elections. Not a bit of difference.

George Herbert Walker Bush might have a somewhat different opinion about that. It seems that having an alternate to his candidacy and that of the other creep running against him had quite an effect- about one vote in five was cast for neither of the two, and Bush I's hopes for a second term in office were flushed away with his *No new taxes* lies and gun import bans.

And if we can't initially prevent the election of such undeserving creatures, I'll initially settle for ending their chances at second terms. That we can accomplish initially with the projected numbers, in Wyoming and Montana, and possibly elsewhere.

-archy-/-

21 posted on 09/24/2003 5:46:09 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
>Try being more cheerful, less gloomy, less prickly, less sensitive for starters.

Hey friend that's a hot one coming from you! You have an active enemies list and thrive on belittling people. Since I am such a good nature chap and easily amused it doesn't bother me though. Besides malcontents and cranks are useful, they just make other folks seem that much nicer.

Cheers,

22 posted on 09/24/2003 5:53:56 PM PDT by u-89
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To: MineralMan
I did look closely at Wyoming during a past thread. While an influx could alter local (city and county) elections and possibly even a few state legislative positions, it's clear that 20K voters would not alter any statewide election results nor affect any elections for that state's congressional or senate elections.

Locally or county-wide offices could be affected in any area by 20K persons. It happens all the time in cities with major universities, when students register and vote en masse.

You can go have a look at Wyoming election returns and you'll see that what I am saying is correct. Google "Wyoming election returns" to find the link.

Natrona County, Wyoming March 2006 :

"Good morning, sir. Here are last night's figures. We have sufficient numbers for five, and almost six."

The dark-haired man behind his desk nods and smiles. He is distinguished like an executive, but also tanned and rugged like a rancher. Little wonder. He is both a rancher and an executive. "Great news, Tom. Five will work. Five is all we need for Phase 1a."

"What about the overflow from number six?" asks the assistant.

"Let's spread half into the first five and reserve the remaining half until September for any surprises."

"Yes, sir. That was my thought, too," agrees Tom.

The rancher executive turns to his computer keyboard and briskly composes a short message, which he PGP encrypts with the public key of a colleague in Phoenix. This he pastes into an email composition window. Above the encrypted message he adds some curious text which looks like a simple computer language and includes several e-remailers' addresses. The entire email was then again PGP encrypted, but with "To's" public key. An envelope within an envelope. Only the email's header (i.e., From, To, Subject) was in plaintext. The Subject line read one question.

He sits back for several moments of calm satisfaction. Then he looks up at his assistant and says, "You've put enormous work into this, Tom. We couldn't have done it without you. Would you do the honors?"

"Yes, sir! Thank you!" Tom steps behind the man's desk, places his hand on the mouse, moves the cursor to the "Send" icon, pauses, and clicks the mouse button. At the speed of light, through two dozen nodes, the email is instantly enroute.

"Iacta alea est," says the man.

"The die is cast," echoes Tom.

The exclamation was attributed to Julius Caesar upon his crossing of the river Rubicon in 49 B.C. against the Senate's orders to lay down his military command. By invading central Italy from the Roman province of Cisalpine Gaul (what is now northern Italy), Caesar kicked off a civil war with his former ally Pompey, a Roman general whose rule extended to Syria and Palestine. Caesar defeated Pompey the next year at Pharsalus and pursued him to Alexandria in Egypt (where he was assassinated). Two years later in 46 B.C., Caesar defeated the remaining Pompeian force in Africa at Thapsus.

"Not that you aspire to become Caesar," Tom qualifies.

"No," sighs the man, "but they will accuse me of it all the same."

*******

Before the two men had finished speaking, the email had already crossed the Atlantic. "To" is a covert e-remailer in Berlin used by only several dozen international libertarians for urgent business. "To" picked up his web-based email from several different public terminals which required no ID or sign-up to log in. Always with Karl Heinz Kolb was his powerful laptop, loaded with virtually every encryption program in existence. It had built-in software and hardware security devices to foil any third-party attempt at usage or data downloading. His friends joked that it would probably convert any snoop into argon gas. Kolb was quietly revered for how seriously he took his computer privacy. There was none his crafty equal in all of Berlin.
Sipping his chai tea at the Potsdamer Platz CyberCafé, he sits down at a terminal, logs onto his Yahoo! account, opens his Inbox, and clicks on the waiting email from aglet@mail.com. Once, Kolb thought aglet was an odd name and so he looked it up. He was surprised to learn that it wasn't a name, but a thing. It is the plastic end of shoelaces that allows you to thread them through the eyeholes. Without aglets, we'd all be wearing sandals or loafers. Whoever aglet was, he evidently appreciated the small, overlooked things which made bigger things not only possible, but common.

The email is a PGP message, which he saves on a floppy. He knows that it had been encrypted with one of his public keys. The "one" in the Subject line's one question means Priority One.

Most public terminals do not have PGP installed, so the 31 year old Berliner must use his laptop. This is really the only downside to web-based email from public computers. Kolb doesn't mind–in fact, he considers it a vital part of the process as he has no intention of sending email from the same terminal he received it. Not even from different accounts, as the IP address would still be the same. Physically breaking up the email chain by using different computers is what makes Kolb's remailing service so solid. His laptop is the only link between them.

Analyzing Kolb's Yahoo! anonymous account would reveal only log- ons from public terminals and the receipt of encrypted remails. Kolb never emailed anyone from that account. Thus, the vaunted Kripos–the Kriminal Polizei–could not learn from Yahoo! who he was, what he was receiving, or from whom.

Ghosts communicating with a ghost.

Kolb deletes the email from his Inbox, empties the Trash, shreds (he had installed Eraser on the server) Today's History from the computer, and logs out. He pays the 5 Euros, leaves the café and disappears down the U-Bahn stairwell a block down the street. Twenty-three minutes later he is at a university library which also has public terminals. He boots up his laptop, inserts the floppy, and decrypts the email with his secret key. Following the enclosed forwarding instructions he prepares to send the remaining PGP message kernel down the remailing chain. The first recipient is a Copenhagen partner of the Berlin operation, so the message is encrypted on Kolb's laptop with the Dane's PGP public key. Thus, what Kolb sends is different from what he had received, in case the two emails were ever somehow compared with each other. The two remailers' public PGP keys were known to precisely 37 people, all trusted libertarians.

From Copenhagen the kernel will skip through Helsinki, Krakow, and Tacoma before landing in Phoenix.

Four hours later the final recipient has it. Its Wyoming origin simply cannot be discerned from backtracking the IP packet flow. Physically, the trail went stone cold at Terminal #14 in the Berlin Technische Universität library, and that's assuming investigators could backtrack all the way to Copenhagen–and then to Berlin. Learning even that useless dead-end would require an expensive and prolonged multinational intelligence effort. The Subject line read Lose 24lbs. In Just 5 Weeks!! Most people would have immediately deleted such an apparent spam, but the man in Phoenix had been awaiting precisely this email.

Not that he was overweight. The message was a grain of sand hiding on a beach. The "24lbs." meant that he had to proceed within 24 hours. The "5" told him the scope of the operation–5 counties. Hands shaking with anticipation, he uses his PGP secret key to decrypt the message.

It reads:

The thunderbolt falls before the noise of it is heard in the skies, prayers are says before the bell is rung for them; he receives the blow that thinks he himself is giving it, he suffers who never expected it, and he dies that look'd upon himself to be the most secure: all is done in the Night and Obscurity, amongst Storms and Confusion.

It was a quote from Gabriel Naudé, a 17th century Paris political author. The Phoenix man smiles, and then laughs out loud to himself. Four years of planning and work! It was actually going to happen! He grabs his laptop, kisses his wife good-bye and says that he'll be back in a few hours. He drives to the main downtown library on Central Avenue, walks up to the second floor where the public terminals are, signs on with an alias as a guest, and begins to work. Within an hour, 9,816 people across the Southwest are notified by an encrypted group email. The message is simple:

Solivitur ambulando. It is solved by walking.

The problem is settled by action–the theoretical by the practical.

*******

Cheyenne, Wyoming
Wyoming Department of Administration and Information Division of Economic Analysis, Emerson Building
October 2006

"Huh! Now, this is odd," observes a data analyst.

"What's odd?" asks his colleague friend in the adjoining cubicle.

"These new resident numbers for this year. Five counties show increases of over 20%."

The analysts work for the Wyoming State Data Center (WSDC) which publishes a monthly bulletin of economic conditions, housing figures, sales tax collections, cost of living indices, etc. Their second floor cubicles had a view of northern Cheyenne. It was a slate and pewter autumn day. A winter storm coming.

"Over 20%? Which five counties?"

"Niobrara, Hot Springs, Johnson, Crook, and Sublette."

"Not Teton or Albany?"

"Nope, it's five economically stagnant counties with very low population bases and–hey, wait a minute!"

"What now?"

"They're not just sparsely populated, they're the five least populated counties! That can't be coincidence!"

"Hmmm. That is weird! Hot Springs has Thermop, Johnson has Buffalo, Crook has Sundance, and Sublette has Pinedale–and those are all nice little towns, but who the hell would move to Lusk? It's a tumbleweed gas stop on the way to nowhere."

"You got that right."

"Intrastate relocation?"

"Hold on, I'm accessing migration flows. Nope, very few intrastate movers. Most came from...California, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Arizona, and Texas."

"That's strange. California and Colorado is typical, but we always lose people to Oregon, Arizona, and Texas. This makes no sense. Besides the oil boom in the early 1980s, when did we ever have a net inflow from Texas? What the hell is going on?"

"Hold on, lemme run some of these new addresses. I wanna see if they're urban or rural." A few mouse clicks later, he exclaims, "You wouldn't believe how many common addresses are popping up!"

"Common addresses? Really?"

"Yeah, common. And all of them rural. Take Crook County, for example. I'm showing a September increase of 1,346 new residents, and guess how many of them listed their address as 2075 Highway 112?"

"How many?"

"217."

"217! At the same address?"

"Yeah, 217. That's 16% of the county's new residents. One in six."

"What's at that address?"

"Hold on, I'm checking. A trailerpark and campground just north of Hulett. Bastiat Trailer Estates. Built this year. It's got...hold on...60 mobile home lots."

"Four residents per trailer; that comes to a capacity of 240. So, yeah, it would easily hold 217 people. Even more."

"Hey, here's another one–384 people show their new residence as the Galtson Mobile Home Park on Highway 111 just south of Aladdin."

"Galtson? That's a funny name."

"Yeah, I thought so, too. And, hey, there's one more trailerpark, the Rothbard Trailer Court on Highway 585 south of Sundance. 316 new residents there."

"Those two trailerparks account for...let's see...over two-thirds of the new people. Where are the rest?"

"The rest–429 to be precise–seem spread out amongst 35 addresses. It's like 35 families just up and decided to take in a dozen refugees in their homes."

"This is the weirdest damn thing I've ever seen. How 'bout you?"

"Oh, by far! Hey! Guess what their voter registration is?"

"What?"

"Republican."

"All of them?"

"Yep. Every last adult. No Democrats. No Libertarians. No Natural Law. No Independents."

"Whaddaya bet same thing's goin' on in those other counties?"

"I'm already on it."

Within an hour, a fairly detailed abstract has been made of the numbers, which shows identical patterns in Niobrara, Hot Springs, Johnson, and Sublette counties. New community housings, trailerparks, and apartment complexes had sprung up there in the past year to be totally filled by new residents relocating from generally six other states. This relocation appears to have begun in the sparsest county of Niobrara, and then in order to the next sparsest counties of Hot Springs, Sublette, Crook, and lastly Johnson–like water filling up an ice tray. This shows design, direction, and coordination.

Purpose.

If the sudden concentration of this orchestrated immigration was suspicious, the timing was alarming. Nearly ten thousand Americans had descended on five sparse Wyoming counties just weeks before a general election. Within the counties, all the political officers were up for election. Clerks, Assessors, County Attorneys, District Attorneys, Sheriffs, Commissioners, Treasurers, Coroners, Judges, everyone.

"Are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

"Who wouldn't be–those five counties are facing a coup d'état!"

"Shit! Who are these people?"

"Beats me, man. Hey, it's 5:30. Let's get outta here and grab a few beers. Get a game plan going before we tell the SecState about this!"

"Sounds good. We'll take all this stuff with us and work on it at down at Muldoons." After several hours at their usual tavern, the two computer analysts are well and truly plastered. An early winter storm had hit southeast Wyoming that evening, and the roads were sheeted in black ice. Driving home, the carpooling pair careen off a mild curve in the road, go down a thirty foot embankment and flip. One is knocked unconscious; the other his neck broken. Their car's fuel line had been ripped away by the dense underbrush, and raw gasoline spilled onto the red-hot exhaust manifold. Only the blaze gave notice of the lonely accident, and by the time the fire trucks had arrived the car was a black, smoking shell. Bits of burning computer printouts floated about like Dante's snowflakes.

The curious fattening of five Wyoming counties goes unnoticed by the replacement analysts at the WSDC. The general election of 2006 is just twelve days away.

-more-


23 posted on 09/24/2003 5:58:05 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: u-89
Besides malcontents and cranks are useful, they just make other folks seem that much nicer.

And those of us with rabies can't help ourselves. But we're real fun to turn loose at dull parties.

-archy-/-

24 posted on 09/24/2003 5:59:53 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
Why am I not surprised that the majority of Free State folks come from California? I always wanted to move there but it was jsut too socialist for me. Had I gone I'd've moved out long ago. Darn shame what happened to that state. Looking forward to moving to state that won't be following California's lead.
25 posted on 09/24/2003 6:01:28 PM PDT by u-89
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To: archy
>But we're real fun to turn loose at dull parties.

I was thinking of opening a joint in the new Free State. Planning on calling it The Chestnut Tree Cafe. When it's set up stop by for some Victory Gin on the house.

26 posted on 09/24/2003 6:04:47 PM PDT by u-89
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To: u-89
I was thinking of opening a joint in the new Free State. Planning on calling it The Chestnut Tree Cafe. When it's set up stop by for some Victory Gin on the house.

...Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world... No, wait: you get to say that...

Anyway, I reckon that that'll be one place where gin control can be an interesting topic for discussion....

-archy-/-

27 posted on 09/24/2003 6:34:15 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: u-89
Why am I not surprised that the majority of Free State folks come from California?

There are a lot of folks in CA, and so accordingly, a fairly large percentage of FSPers should reflect that. That's a fairly mobile society, so it's neither surprising that some are taking advantage of that mobility to vote with their feet.

And some, particularly those with kids who have to consider the future, can't just remain there on a day-by-day basis and hope they can get out at the last minute when it turns nasty.

I always wanted to move there but it was jsut too socialist for me. Had I gone I'd've moved out long ago. Darn shame what happened to that state. Looking forward to moving to state that won't be following California's lead.

I hope our former Californios, like our former Texians, our former Hoosiers, and all the others, bring some of the attitudes and outlook that once made their home state the special place it was, and help their new home achieve its own deserved unique reputation.

See you in the free state, pal.

-archy-/-

28 posted on 09/24/2003 6:40:28 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: MineralMan
Think small, act not at all.

Be sure you are right. Then go ahead.

--Personal motto of former US Congressman Davy Crockett, killed at the Alamo fight, San Antonio de Bezar, Tejas, March of 1836.

29 posted on 09/24/2003 6:43:32 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
I think it was you who gave me the idea for the joint. Quite a while back on one of these threads we were dissenting over the growth and power of the state and you signed off with "see you at the Chestnut Tree Cafe" referring to what happens to dissidents in Orwell's 1984. If it wasn't you sorry for the confusion and sorry to the guy who's now forgotten who inspired my dream. A Free State should have something to remind them of Big Brother so they'll never lose their vigilance. I was thinking of setting it up in a college town. The Chestnut Tree will be profitable while serving the public interest.
30 posted on 09/24/2003 6:50:38 PM PDT by u-89
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To: DC native
I vote for Delaware. Flat, undeveloped, conservative (in the rural parts), only three counties to memorize...

Wyoming only has one House district for the entire state. REAL easy to memorize. And when a constituent from anywhere in the state drops by the Representative's office, there's no quick attempt to determine their zip code to see if they're from that Representative's particular district, as in other congressional offices. In Wyoming, everyone's from the First District.

What more could a person ask for?

Golf courses, or dancing girls for those not golf-inclined.

Seriously, though, I think it's the best kept secret on the East Coast.

I've spent some great vacation time in Delaware, interestingly enough with a Danish flight attendent who's in love with the place and is considering settling there herself. And the tax structure and incorporation laws offer interesting possibilities. But it appears unlikely to be the first choice for most Porcupines, though as a follow-on FSP state, it does indeed have a great deal to offer.

-archy-/-

31 posted on 09/24/2003 6:51:26 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: meenie
Wyoming is the place. More conservative and libertarian than any place in the Union. The only mistake they ever made was woman voting. They have tried to live it down ever since by voting conservative.

The state tree is a rock. The state flower is a rock. The state bird... well, you get the idea.

But Wyoming was my first choice, and got my FSP vote. Not too surprising; I'm the FSP Wyoming discussion group board founder/moderator.

-archy-/-

32 posted on 09/24/2003 6:54:06 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Onelifetogive
For those of us who are not in a position to move, a "free district" project would be a nice assistance to their effort. If we could elect many "libertarians" or "constitutionalists" from our states, any efforts that the "free state" made could be assisted by supportive federal votes from our districts.

There are some Texans with something similar going on, and they've got 254 counties to deal with, in many ways a more daunting challenge than the Porcupines face in the coming Free State.

But other states offer similarly interesting possibilities based on county or congressional districts.

-archy-/-

33 posted on 09/24/2003 6:57:47 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: society-by-contract
For a discussion by skeptical soverign individuals/market anarchists:

http://anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=7028

Thank you! I'm going to repost that one on a couple of FSP discussion boards. Interesting....

-archy-/-

34 posted on 09/24/2003 6:59:47 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Whichever state gets them will have a few more slobbed up yards with junked cars, broken appliances and superannuated trailers laying around in them. They might see a small increase in whining screeds sent to the editor decrying their inability to open burn plastic and rubber trash as well, but thats about all the impact you'll see.

Post bookmarked for future reference. Hehhehheh.

We'll see, come election of 2004, and especially, 2008.

But I'll pass on your concern about the junk cars and appliances in the front yard of the governor's mansion.

-archy-/-

35 posted on 09/24/2003 7:02:49 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Jack Black
You need to look closer at Wyoming. An influx could easily take over the reins of government in some counties and small cities. That would be a change. Because it leans libertarian already I think 20,000 activists could make a difference. After all this is how the Socialists get their programs through. Go to slightly left leaning states like NY and Cali and elect far lefters and drag the whole state with them to socialist hell. Why can't it work in reverse for liberty?

Five counties and two major cities [but not the state capital city of Cheyenne -yet] have been identified as very fertile ground for political efforts by the emergent FSP political party arm, IF Wyoming is the state chosen. Of those able to, if 2000 each can relocate in the voting districts of those counties, roughly half of the relocating Porcupines, we'll have a near-immediate political base, and whether we control the statehouse or not, we'll be an influence that can't be ignored. Sorta like a porcupine in a room full of nudists. With the lights turned off.

Porcupine advance crews have identified similar possibilities in other states; the Montana outline is particularly well-done and detailed, offering some REALLY interesting possibilities under that state's law, and those in New Hampshire are not about to be outdone by those of us nosing about for possible western porcupine ranching prospects.

The possibilities are not bleak in any of the ten possible states; that's why they were the finalists and eventual choices. But a couple appear more attractive than others, and the final choice is up to each Porcupine, who's choosing for those next 15,000 to join us as well as his or herself.

-archy-/-

36 posted on 09/24/2003 7:14:56 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: u-89
I think it was you who gave me the idea for the joint. Quite a while back on one of these threads we were dissenting over the growth and power of the state and you signed off with "see you at the Chestnut Tree Cafe" referring to what happens to dissidents in Orwell's 1984. If it wasn't you sorry for the confusion and sorry to the guy who's now forgotten who inspired my dream. A Free State should have something to remind them of Big Brother so they'll never lose their vigilance. I was thinking of setting it up in a college town. The Chestnut Tree will be profitable while serving the public interest.

I don't recall the exchange, but I'm familiar with the reference; there was a coffeehouse of that name that was a popular hangout in my college days, and I was aware of the source of the name even if most of the college kids weren't.

It is indeed a great name for an evening watering spot, about third on the list I'd have if I were so inclined, but going nicely with a joint with at least some eatery possibilities, I hope. And I hope there'll be a bulletin board somewhere around the place for public notices and wanted flyers for previous elected officials and political miscreants.

You ever seen the video for Toby Keith's *I love this bar*? And do let me know if you'd care to have a guitar-picker and/or banjo plunker or two around some Winter's evening.

-archy-/-

37 posted on 09/24/2003 8:02:37 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: MineralMan
This Free State thing is simply not going to work, though. There just aren't enough people involved to make it work. It's doubtful if they will ever reach their goal of 20K, and that's not nearly enough.

It's not been that long ago that we were told how long it would really take before we assembled the voting 5000, and that's now coming to pass a year ahead of the expected schedule. My guess is that 15,000 more for the combined 20,000 will be signed on in the same time it took us to get the first 5K, about twenty-four months, more or less.

So whether the eventual further effort will be successful or not is an open question, and we shall see. But it is certain that we will not succeed if we do not try.

Maybe in a couple of years from now, your pessimism will be proven correct. Or maybe it'll be good for a chuckle. We shall see.

-archy-/-

38 posted on 09/24/2003 8:09:51 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy; Just another Joe; Jack Black; MineralMan
It's not been that long ago that we were told how long it would really take before we assembled the voting 5000, and that's now coming to pass a year ahead of the expected schedule. My guess is that 15,000 more for the combined 20,000 will be signed on in the same time it took us to get the first 5K, about twenty-four months, more or less.

***[From 05/19/2003, when we had around 3500 Porcupines signed on:]***

FSP has had their eye on Idaho as long as I can remember, and they still have only 3,000 people willing to move.

They'll "pick a state" when they're at 5,000? That ought to be well into the next millinium.

Mid-May: Signed members as of 5-14-2003: 3,682

Mid-April: 3000+..., Mid-May: 3500+.... Let us see if Mid-June offers a total of 4000 or more pledged and signed porcupines, or thereabouts. True, there may be some dropoff over the Summer months. But then too, the Montana conference over Memorial Day may offer additional velocity to the effort. We'll see.

But either way, here comes that new *millinium* you mentioned, a little ahead of schedule!

-archy-/-

39 posted on 09/24/2003 8:20:18 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: bc2
At first I couldn't comprehend living anywhere but the East coast, with an emphasis on "coast". So last spring, I started ordering those state tourist publicity magazines. I have to say, I could move to Idaho.
Most of the western states on the list have spectacular vistas, and land is still relatively cheap compared to anywhere else.
Okay, I'd still prefer New Hampshire over any other FSP state, but I now could mentally make the move to the West...except Alaska. I'm just too urban for that kind of wilderness.
40 posted on 09/24/2003 8:47:08 PM PDT by Katya
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I wish them the best of luck. It will be interesting. It might even be a nice place to visit.
41 posted on 09/24/2003 8:50:36 PM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: MineralMan
Think small, act not at all.

That would be a more appropriate headline to this continuing silliness. Even if this "project" could manage to move the whole 20K folks into a state like Wyoming, it would make no difference to the outcome of statewide elections. Not a bit of difference.

No disrespect intended, but I think that it is you who are thinking small. 20,000 people, each change another's mind on an issue concerning freedom, thats 40k. You tell a politician that you have 20,000 people waiting to vote against them if he does/doesnt do X, you can grab him by the er, horns. You ever play poker? This would be called bluffing (or not) from the first position. Also, if even half of the 20k actually got ACTIVE in campaigning, the result could be huge. Very myopic, IMO, MM...JFK

42 posted on 09/24/2003 8:59:05 PM PDT by BADROTOFINGER (Life sucks. Get a helmet.)
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To: Jack Black
You need to look closer at Wyoming. An influx could easily take over the reins of government in some counties and small cities. That would be a change. Because it leans libertarian already I think 20,000 activists could make a difference.

And there are a lot of like-minded folks right next door in Colorado who wouldn't mind moving one state to the north.

43 posted on 09/24/2003 8:59:54 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: Jack Black
So if we, the citizen frogs, are not to be gradually boiled in the hot water of creeping socialism SOMETHING different has to happen. If this is a bad idea, or a useless one, what's a good one?

I live in New York, where nearly every vote I've ever cast has been useless. It sure would be nice to make my vote count for once. Once chosen, a Free State might mean a lot to a lot of people who don't FReep, aren't interviewed, but who would embrace the opportunity to make a change.

44 posted on 09/24/2003 9:07:32 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: Katya
It would be better to choose two states: one in the east, and one in the west. Wyoming would be best in the west and perhaps Vermont would be best in the East, because of it's liberal carry laws and lack of crime.

It's important to choose soon, so as to give people time to move. And it's important to choose two states so folks can be a drive away from their hometowns.

I don't know about Delaware, though. Isn't there a lot of crime there compared to Vermont or New Hampshire?

45 posted on 09/24/2003 9:18:45 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: Katya
I am actually looking forward to a move, and some adventure out west will suit me just fine. As much as I want NH to win, I won't be upset if a western State takes it.

I am looking forward to leaving the overly populated East, and moving out of an urban area back into a rural setting.

But, I am young, and my father said he would follow me to NH but probably not WY or ID.

We shall see!
46 posted on 09/25/2003 10:47:37 AM PDT by bc2 (http://www.thinkforyourself.us)
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To: archy
>some eatery possibilities...I hope there'll be a bulletin board....have a guitar-picker and/or banjo plunker

It seems we're on the same wavelength about how a joint should be set up. If I'm going to move west then I'll be missing the culture of the east coast so I'll have to make some of my own. A college town would be an ideal location for what I'm thinking. The first thought was along the lines of a Viennese coffee house where artists and intellectuals could hang out. A place where liquor is served but it is not a bar in the traditional sense. Then I got to thinking to expand it to fill multiple functions. I figure a split with a bar and "reading room" decorated with liberty themes and 1984 posters and such. Then there would be an adjoining seated dining room where musicians can play blues, folk, jazz, etc. College kids might be good for fairly talented but cheap entertainment along these lines. This room would also double as an art gallery. As for the food I don't want to hire a chef so I thought gourmet sandwiches and light Mexican stuff like nachos and burritos, etc. could be served as well as some fancy deserts. My brother is sick of Florida so I figure I could get him to operate the place on a daily basis which would free me to do my artwork and conduct my other businesses and ventures.

Hopefully a project I'm currently working on will pay off enough so I can open this cafe as well as build a house I designed for myself. One of the draw backs to building has been I never knew where to build it. I knew it wouldn't be here in Jersey but didn't know where to settle. The FSP will fix that problem.

47 posted on 09/25/2003 12:01:49 PM PDT by u-89
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To: u-89
Hopefully a project I'm currently working on will pay off enough so I can open this cafe as well as build a house I designed for myself. One of the draw backs to building has been I never knew where to build it. I knew it wouldn't be here in Jersey but didn't know where to settle. The FSP will fix that problem.

I also suspect that you'll have a goodly number of Porcupines who miss such venues from their old surroundings, as well as the locals who find the idea a welcome change and breath of fresh air. Whether the numbers of regulars will be enough for your success is of course a crapshoot, but not an unreasonable one.

If it wasn't for the FSP project location requirement, I know of a great little place that needs a good guiding touch, and it sounds like what you have in mind would be just about right.

Read this, then this.

-archy-/-

48 posted on 09/25/2003 12:28:53 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
>success is of course a crapshoot, but not an unreasonable one.

That's why I feel a college town would be the best location - more locals hip to the concept. I sort of doubt the place would work out in ranch country. It just wouldn't be a typical cowboy sort of joint.

Did I understand you correctly that the big annoucement will be carried live on the internet?

49 posted on 09/25/2003 4:57:03 PM PDT by u-89
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To: u-89
That's why I feel a college town would be the best location - more locals hip to the concept. I sort of doubt the place would work out in ranch country. It just wouldn't be a typical cowboy sort of joint.

Did I understand you correctly that the big annoucement will be carried live on the internet?

A lot of those cowboys might surprise you. But that's counting chickens before they hatch, and New Hampsterland may well be the final choice.

The announcement is to be made at 11:00 AM New York time. I understand Fox News will be there, and Porcupines have never been shy about getting their news netposted.

I should have it posted here by around 11:03 NYC time, unless someone beats me to it. Dewey defeats Truman!

Details of the announcement *here.*

-archy-/-

50 posted on 09/25/2003 5:21:44 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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