Computer scientists fear voter fraud with touch-screen voting

Associated Press ^ | 10-6-03 | RACHEL KONRAD

[Oldeconomybuyer]

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) --

[weegee]

Activists are demanding that ballot machine vendors include printers that produce paper receipts so citizens can confirm that paper results match their touch-screen choices. Receipts would go into a county lock-box for use in recounts.

BZZZZZZZZZZT! Hold it right there.

If a paper ballot is printed and placed in a box, then THAT is the ballot that must be counted, regardless of whatever was input into the machine.

There could always be a slight of hand from someone with a preprinted ballot in their hand that they place in the box. Such a mismatched ballot would "invalidate" the computer tally because there would be guaranteed to be a mismatch between some entries and the computer tally.

If voters are not smart enough to look at their ballot for any hanging chads (I've never seen one, even when I tried to dimple a ballot) then they most certainly won't reread the printed out card before putting it in the box.

Also, the term "touch screens" here is misleading. This is not just an issue with "touch screens" but all electronic ballot boxes (including those that use dial input devices).

[weegee]

The solution is to travel on election day so that you can legally mail your ballot in as an absentee.

[LittleJoe]

Hackers are going to love touch screen ballots!

[AbsoluteJustice]

Hmmmmmm Wonder why this wasn't an issue when Davis was elected? Hmmmm

[weegee]

I worked at Compaq on some systems that were to be used as Russian electronic ballot boxes (not the software for the systems, just lowcost PC systems).

I am skeptical myself. I say screw the "automated" tallying of electronic voting. Print out an analog ballot (black dots or punch holes) that corresponds to the voter's choices (with some sort of correlation so that the voter will be able to verify that these are his choices). Place that ballot in the box for later tabulation.

I've already said why a paper backup to an electronic count is pointless (some other sheet of paper could be put in the box).

There is still the possibility for "lost" or "mangled" ballots as well as ballot stuffing. Poll observers, clearing the voter rolls, and other doublechecks will always be important.

[weegee]

If a sizeable percentage of the voting public protested by mailing in absentee ballots (physical hardcopy ballots) it would bog down the "streamlined" election process and would force the congressmen in every state to reconsider electronic balloting systems.

Here in Houston I think that you can also vote in Chinese or Vietnamese and still use a paper ballot (English and Spanish will be electronic ballots).

[adx]

Face it, the only way voter fraud will be held in check is by giving the prepetrator convicted of such an offense a very long prison sentence.

Better yet, the death penalty.

[G.Mason]

"Better yet, the death penalty."

Hee hee

My kind of guy/gal !

You realize they once hung horse thieves?

Now a thief who steals your car isn't even sent to prison.

Moider da bums!

[adx]

Why not combine methods? Touch-screen machines that print out a human-readable and machine-readable ballot (print the name, with the machine-readable stuff next to it), that then gets fed into an optical scanner? And include a touch-screen "keyboard" so you can hunt-and-peck for write-in candidates. No dimpled chads or guessing who they meant to vote for, since all you'd have to do is see what's printed, not written, on the ballot.

[LittleJoe]

I will be voting by absentee ballot even if I have to do it in Chinese!


If a sizeable percentage of the voting public protested by mailing in absentee ballots (physical hardcopy ballots) it would bog down the "streamlined" election process and would force the congressmen in every state to reconsider electronic balloting systems

[weegee]

That's along the lines of what I suggest. Such a system is no more or less secure from "tampering" than any other.

What this type of electronic ballot (which does not have to be "touch screen" to be electronic) does is eliminate the problems from improperly punched cards or jammed switches that prevented the recording of votes for certain candidates/parties/ballot initiatives.

[weegee]

I already order DVDs from around the world in foreign languages (that I cannot read). Ballots are online in all campaigns prior to election day. All I need to know is what box to check and which candidate is the guy I want.

And of course if I get it wrong after election day, I can always go to the streets to protest like a Floriduh voter! "Well your honor, I couldn't read Chinese! How was I supposed to know that I was voting FOR Dean???"

[Your Nightmare]

Studies have shown that the most accurate method for voting is marking you selection on a piece of paper (check your vote with a pencil) and putting that piece of paper through an optical reader. The optical readers are very accurate, it provides for a paper trail, and if a human being (remember them?) has to review the ballot it is very easy for them to determine what the voter's intent was (no hanging/dimpled chads, no blue screens of death, hacking, or crashed hard drives).

Computer-based voting is a HUGE disaster waiting to happen. As someone who uses and loves computer technology, I am not so naive to think that computers can solve every problem. This is one where the situation is too important to leave to the machines.

[jimfree]

Voted with touch screen last November in Prince George's County, Maryland. Didn't have much impact on the county races but we elected Bob Erlich to the governorship and retired Kathleen Kennedy Townsend from politics.

[Publius6961]

BUMP

[txhurl]

Electronic voting machines discovered to be easily hacked

Thread is hard to read, but worrisome.

[Kozak]

Yup. Always thought this was a perfect recipe for fraud.

'It is not he who casts the votes that matters -- but he who counts the votes.' ---Josef Stalin.

[LexBaird]

Wouldn't it be interesting if a hacker, proving a point, were to make it so one particular precinct came up with a obviously bogus result, like a 100% vote for Gary Coleman.

These paperless machines would be DOA as soon as it hit the news.

[Truth666]

"Electronic voting machines discovered to be easily hacked" - title is misleading. It's not about hackers from outside - it's all about insiders.

[Truth666]

Please see my previous post - it explains why that will not happen.