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Mystery blood clots kill U.S. troops
prolog.net ^ | Monday, 06-Oct-2003 8:58PM | United Press International

Posted on 10/06/2003 10:44:15 PM PDT by Destro

Mystery blood clots kill U.S. troops Monday

06-Oct-2003 8:58PM

Story from United Press International

Copyright 2003 by United Press International (via ClariNet)

WASHINGTON, Oct. 6 (UPI) -- Several U.S. soldiers in the Iraqi war died from sudden illnesses and a United Press International probe shows those were triggered by unexplained blood clots.

The Pentagon says blood clots caused two soldiers to collapse and die. At least eight other soldiers have also collapsed and died from what the military has described as non-combat-related causes.

NBC reporter David Bloom also died of a blood clot in his lung after collapsing near Baghdad.

The UPI investigation by reporter Mark Benjamin also points to another disturbing factor of soldiers becoming ill or dying from similar ailments in the United States. In some cases, the soldiers, their families and civilian doctors blame vaccines given to them by the military, particularly the anthrax or smallpox shots.

Some of the soldiers who died suddenly had complained about symptoms suffered by Bloom -- including pain in the legs that could indicate problems with blood clots.

The UPI investigation found 17 soldiers who died of sudden illnesses.

"I would say that that number of cases (blood clot deaths) among young healthy troops would seem to be unusual," said Dr. Jeffrey Sartin, an infectious diseases doctor at the Gundersen Clinic in La Crosse, Wis.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: allergy; anthrax; anthraxshots; anthraxvaccine; army; atypicalpneumonia; bioport; biowar; blood; bloodagent; bloodclot; cbr; cdc; clot; clots; davidbloom; dvt; embolism; felling; healthcare; iraq; iraqifreedom; kuwait; marines; mystery; mysteryillness; pulmonaryembolism; reaction; smallpox; troops; us; vaccination; vaccine
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Could it also be from sitting prone in a combat vehicle for hours on end? (Like the cases that arise from long plane rides)
1 posted on 10/06/2003 10:44:16 PM PDT by Destro
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2 posted on 10/06/2003 10:46:14 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Destro
Could it also be from sitting prone in a combat vehicle for hours on end? (Like the cases that arise from long plane rides)

Or David Bloom?

3 posted on 10/06/2003 10:50:18 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Destro
No we did that since WWII plus you don't hear about people dying much from ridding in aircraft or sitting at their desk on a computer.

Something is wrong and they need to look for what these soldiers have in common such as where they have been and what shots they take, etc.
4 posted on 10/06/2003 10:52:42 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (Feeling my age, but wanting to feel older)
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To: Destro
We used to have to get smallpox shots to go to Kindergarten, and again to go to college. I don't recall any news of people dying of blood clots from the vaccinations. Then again we didn't have 24/7 panic-stricken news.
5 posted on 10/06/2003 10:54:20 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: Destro
If I recall, the heat and dehydration have something to do with the clotting.
6 posted on 10/06/2003 11:00:04 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe
Right. Same thing is true of the 12,000 men now dead who served in Desert Storm.....
7 posted on 10/06/2003 11:03:44 PM PDT by Held_to_Ransom
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To: ntnychik
I hope this isn't going to be a mystery in the same vein of gulf war syndrome...
8 posted on 10/06/2003 11:05:16 PM PDT by cyborg (kliek hier for maximum zottage)
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To: Paleo Conservative; U S Army EOD; ntnychik; Lijahsbubbe
Probably unrelated but worth considering: Prolonged sitting in airplanes causing blood clots
9 posted on 10/06/2003 11:07:06 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Paleo Conservative
Or David Bloom?

I thought he worked himself to death? Long hours in the hot sun without many break.
11 posted on 10/06/2003 11:12:13 PM PDT by lelio
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To: Destro
Thanks. I knew prolonged sitting was involved. Also dehydration which would be due to the heat.
12 posted on 10/06/2003 11:14:56 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe
"Dehydration puts your body under greater stress because all your organs start to compete for the limited amount of water circulating in the blood. This in turn increases your blood pressure.

Where did you get your medical training?
That's dead wrong!
Blood pressure FALLS with dehydration.

"Other causes of low blood pressure include the following:



FROM:
MEDLINE plus Medical Encyclopedia: Blood Pressure - low
Updated by: Bridget Martell, M.D., Department of Internal Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, New York, NY. Review provided by VeriMed Healthcare Network.
13 posted on 10/06/2003 11:31:55 PM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
The correct link for "dehydration" is:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000982.htm

The other link to the article on low blood pressure works.
14 posted on 10/06/2003 11:41:27 PM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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To: lelio
I thought he worked himself to death? Long hours in the hot sun without many break.

No, it was a blood clot

NBC correspondent David Bloom dies of blood clot while covering Iraq war

15 posted on 10/06/2003 11:42:43 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Destro
I believe you're talking about Deep Veinous Thrombosis - a potentially fatal condition that goes often undetected until too late.

Results from a clump of fat (thrumbus) detaching from an occluded blood vessel, then getting lodged in the lungs, where it becomes an embolus. Thing is, a vessel does not necessarily have to be obstucted to the point where major problems arise.

I believe Olympic Skater Tara Lipinski had problems with it, and she is certainly not a textbook case of bad health.

For some reason, sitting for a long time (like in an airplane or road trip) can dislodge a clot.

16 posted on 10/06/2003 11:59:25 PM PDT by PurVirgo (What would you do if FR was no more?? Please support FR!!!)
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
Looks like my post was pulled, presumably from no link. Which was my mistake. I can't find it now, but at any rate, look up any article on clotting and dehydration and you will find that dehydration is definitely a contributor, which was my original contention.

If that was incorrect, thanks for the correction.
17 posted on 10/07/2003 12:01:08 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe
The high blood pressure caused by dehydration was incorrect. I pointed it out to the moderator and he must have looked at the Medline articles.
Dehydration leads to hypotension not hypertension.

Hope I didn't get sarcastic.
18 posted on 10/07/2003 12:07:23 AM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
Well that taught me not to post so hastily! LOL.
19 posted on 10/07/2003 12:10:58 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe
What? You want to take away my (anal) joy at correcting posts?
How rude!
Some days I live for that.
LOL
20 posted on 10/07/2003 12:12:35 AM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
Hey, there's always spelling correction!
21 posted on 10/07/2003 12:18:35 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe
Hmmm, there's a thought.
Though, with the way I type, that's asking for trouble!
22 posted on 10/07/2003 12:22:35 AM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
Now, if only I could get your post pulled for incorrect spelling....... heh heh....
23 posted on 10/07/2003 12:33:22 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Destro
Ever read "The Andromeda Strain," by chance?
24 posted on 10/07/2003 12:37:22 AM PDT by TheAngryClam (A proud member of the McClintock Militia)
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To: Lijahsbubbe
Well, I did screw up the link to the Medline dehydration article. Does that count?
25 posted on 10/07/2003 12:43:50 AM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
MODERATOR!!!!
26 posted on 10/07/2003 12:46:57 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Shermy; Grampa Dave; Alamo-Girl; Cindy; Miss Marple; okie01; Howlin; bonesmccoy
"I would say that that number of cases (blood clot deaths) among young healthy troops would seem to be unusual," said Dr. Jeffrey Sartin, an infectious diseases doctor at the Gundersen Clinic in La Crosse, Wis.

My oh my, I just had one of those feelings and decided to plug in the name "Dr. Jeffrey Sartin" with Red Flags Weekly's "Dr. Meryle Nass" and whaddaya know, they turn up together!

Dr. Nass belongs to an obscure group which violated the sanctions on Iraq,, seems like they were called "doctors and nurses for responsibility and peace" or some such thing; she also had a tour in Cuba, and evidently in Rhodesia as well allegedly in the med field. We have to take her word for it on this. She is the author of a report (not a medical paper though some played as if it were) of a cutaneous anthrax outbreak in Africa. (Not inhalation anthrax.) The report never made it into any medical journals and its play was limited to the fine communist webzine "Red Flags Weekly" and other lefty sites which picked it up after some sources fingered Hatfill. (You must be a member of DU to appreciate Red Flag's op eds, I suppose.)

Nass had spent some time aiding protesters who were up in arms over US tritium production among other things, in the 90s. Depleted uranium and all that.

The intent of Nass and Rosenberg is to shut down US military research into biowarfare defense. So i is never a shcok to see people in the same circles as Nass, old protester that she was, still at it.

27 posted on 10/07/2003 1:04:43 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Destro
I realize this happens but so does sitting at a desk, computer, truck drivers, taxi drivers, etc.
28 posted on 10/07/2003 1:14:35 AM PDT by U S Army EOD (Feeling my age, but wanting to feel older)
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To: Destro
dehydration and sitting without moving make one prone to blood clots.

For example, the BBC had a couple health columns last year about long airline flights and blood clots.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1886083.stm

One way to decrease the risk would be to have all soldiers take an aspirin every day. However, if they were shot or in a car wreck, taking an aspirin would increase the amount of bleeding from wounds, and so it would probably kill more people than prevent deaths from DVT

If you are sitting, support stockings (TED hose) also prevent clots, and I usually wear them on long flights. However, they are hot and uncomfortable, and if you bend your knees they wrinkle. So again not practical for combat. But helpful on long flights.
29 posted on 10/07/2003 4:45:33 AM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politcially correct poor people.)
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To: cyborg
I hope this isn't going to be a mystery in the same vein of gulf war syndrome...

Rim shot! Your pun was a stroke of genius.

30 posted on 10/07/2003 6:11:01 AM PDT by ntnychik
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To: piasa
Very interesting, piasa! Thank you so much for the information and analysis!
31 posted on 10/07/2003 7:31:35 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Destro; SLB; aristeides; Wally Cleaver
The UPI investigation found 17 soldiers who died of sudden illnesses.

With 17 cases I would assume they'd have found the common cause. I expect it's those anthrax shots, so they can't publicly say so.

32 posted on 10/07/2003 7:39:09 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: LadyDoc
However, if they were shot or in a car wreck, taking an aspirin would increase the amount of bleeding from wounds, and so it would probably kill more people than prevent deaths from DVT

Is death from blood loss really that much of a risk when our soldiers presumably have easy access to transfusions and plasma?

33 posted on 10/07/2003 7:51:32 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: Fred Mertz
Do we know whether the anthrax shots provide protection against the anthrax the Iraqis had/have? I know anthrax antitoxin can cause serum sickness, but is it riskier than the immunization shots?
34 posted on 10/07/2003 7:53:18 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: U S Army EOD
Dehydration is also a likely factor. The air out there sucks the water right out of you.
35 posted on 10/07/2003 7:54:46 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: backhoe; flutters
Something for your data banks?
36 posted on 10/07/2003 7:54:51 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: Betty Jo
You're interested in Bioport, El Hibri, and Adm. Crowe, aren't you?
37 posted on 10/07/2003 7:56:50 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: Constantine XIII
Perhaps, but we have been operating in dry climates for a long time. If all of a sudden, we are having problems with blood clots and the information is accurate, we need to look elsewhere for a cause.
38 posted on 10/07/2003 9:06:38 AM PDT by U S Army EOD (Feeling my age, but wanting to feel older)
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To: TheAngryClam
Ever read "The Andromeda Strain," by chance?

You are suggesting a source of extraTerrestial origin?

-archy-/-

39 posted on 10/07/2003 9:19:54 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: U S Army EOD
Is there any similar occurance in Army history? That column went for a long time without stopping. I don't know enough to say one way or another, so I'll bow to your knowledge of these things. :p
40 posted on 10/07/2003 9:40:44 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: archy
I just wanted to inject some tinfoil hats into the discussion.

And didn't that kill by damaging blood vessels and thus causing massive clotting?
41 posted on 10/07/2003 9:43:26 AM PDT by TheAngryClam (A proud member of the McClintock Militia)
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker; Lijahsbubbe
"Dehydration leads to hypotension not hypertension."

Let me share something that happened to me last summer.

I'm 36 years old. 5'7" 150 pounds in good physical shape with no prior history of high blood pressure. Having grown up in Georgia, I have what I consider to be a fairly high tolerance to heat. Up untill last summer, I've never had any problem with heat whatsoever.

I had just returned to my job from my lunch break. All of a sudden, I got a little dizzy. I wrote it off as a product of the 70 hour weeks we had been working, and kept at it. The dizzyness got worse. I went and sat down in my air conditioned office, and called my boss on the phone.

In a matter of minutes, the dizzyness got worse, I was sweating bullets, it was really hard to breath. I told my now present boss, who was more scared than I was, to call an ambulance. From that point untill I woke up in the local ER with a saline bag dripping into my arm, I don't remember much.

After I came to, a doctor explained to me what happened. Because of long term dehydration, due to me not drinking enough water(I was a pepsi freak)over a long period of time, certain electrolytes that help control BP were depleted in my blood. This allowed my BP to spike real high, real quick, even though I had never had BP problems before.

In the year since, I've had three check ups and had tests run, with no further problems.

42 posted on 10/07/2003 9:55:57 AM PDT by Vigilantcitizen (Game on in ten seconds...http://www.fatcityonline.com/Video/fatcityvsdemented.WMV)
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To: TheAngryClam
I just wanted to inject some tinfoil hats into the discussion.

And didn't that kill by damaging blood vessels and thus causing massive clotting?

Via a biological agent obtained from a sattelite collector outside the Earth's atmosphere, IIRC, with a result of turning all the blood in the pt to powder, clotting internally and completely. It also dissolved teflon seals of the biosecurity containment lab in which it was being examined, causing all sorts of interesting little difficulties.

Personally, I think the sci-fi giant ants or grasshoppers are more likely. But Crichton's book and the movie make for an interesting analogy.

Those of us more knowledgable about the rays being beamed to Earth use Gold foil in our hats.

-archy-/-

43 posted on 10/07/2003 10:03:33 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Lijahsbubbe
It is not involved--I just put it out there.
44 posted on 10/07/2003 10:06:52 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: TheAngryClam
I saw the movie on late night TV.
45 posted on 10/07/2003 10:11:52 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: viligantcitizen
Wow, that's scary. I'm glad everything worked out okay for you. I'm a pepsi lover too, so I know how easy it can be to not be getting the water that you need, plus adding caffeine.

I don't know how you survived 70 hour weeks. Hats off to ya!
46 posted on 10/07/2003 10:12:22 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
I-might-not-be-wrong-after-all ping!!! Read post 42! I knew today was gonna be a great day! ; )
47 posted on 10/07/2003 10:16:49 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Constantine XIII; johnb838; concerned about politics
Is there any similar occurance in Army history? That column went for a long time without stopping.

I'm not aware of any particularly widespread reports of anything similar among the British Eighth Army's *Desert Rats* of WWII, who endured similarly harsh consditions for long duration, nor do I know of any particular reports of anything similar on the Axis side, though incidents involving poisoned water holes, heat prostration and dehydration and other incapaciting maladies were no stranger, of course. My war college thesis was on operations of the period in Libyan Cyrenaica, so I think I'd have come across references to such at some point in my research.

Of course the biblical plagues of Moses come to mind....maybe those familiar with the appropriate verses from the Chapter of the Apocalypse would be able to find a comparison.

-archy-/-

48 posted on 10/07/2003 10:25:31 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Destro
Could it also be from sitting prone in a combat vehicle for hours on end? (Like the cases that arise from long plane rides)

That's *Orthostatic hypotension* common in tank crews who sit for extended periods, then get out of the vehicle and stretch, their blood flows back into the extremities, particularly legs that have had the circulation cut off, and as a result, the supply of blood to the brain is lessened, and they zonk right out. It's rarely fatal, though, unless they're standing atop the back deck or on the turret and fall, that being a cause of an occasional serious injury or fatality.

Back in the 1960s, Dexamyl and other amphetimine *speed* was sometimes given to crews both as endurance-enhancing *go pills* and to kick up the blood pressure of those who'd suffered cramping or dizziness from their seated positions inside the tanks. There was a point of diminished returns, of course, especially if long term-use were to become a problem. In the event of a Soviet tank invasion of West Germany, long use of anything was not a likely problem for us.

Followup expanded UPI story FReepposted *here*.

49 posted on 10/07/2003 10:43:47 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Lijahsbubbe
Sorry. Still wrong. Open Google or the like and search for "dehydration blood pressure" and note the the results. The first page is all pages of 'dehydration causes hypotension.' Except for one ad site for medical products. I didn't go to results 11-whatever.
Anecdotal tales are interesting and I'm glad the author of post #42 is fine but note the Pepsi 'addiction' which is what (probably) caused an electrolyte imbalance. W/o a blood work it's impossible to tell further.
But, since every medical textbook I have says dehydration causes low pressure and the sites, I quickly checked, all agree on it it I fail to see the (sorry getting sarcastic again).
If the Google returned sites aren't enough - ask a doctor, in person.

The Merck Manual has a nice page on dehydration:
Merck Manual

I am curious as to where you found the original info -
"Dehydration puts your body under greater stress because all your organs start to compete for the limited amount of water circulating in the blood. This in turn increases your blood pressure."
that started all this.
50 posted on 10/07/2003 11:13:57 AM PDT by FormerlyAnotherLurker
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