The Crusaders (slapdown article on national "orthodox" Catholic leaders)

Boston Globe ^ | November 2, 2003 | Charles P. Pierce

[american colleen]

A powerful faction of religious and political conservatives is waging a latter-day counterreformation, battling widespread efforts to liberalize the American Catholic Church. And it has the clout and the connections to succeed.

There is a glow to the priest when he talks. Something lights him up inside, and its intensity is increased by the mild way he says what he's saying. The words, harsh and unyielding, seem not so much a departure from the mainstream as they do a living refutation that there is any mainstream at all, not one to which the priest has to pay any mind, anyway.

[american colleen]

< sarcasm >Even handed treatment of liberal and orthodox Catholics by the Boston Globe. < /sarcasm >

[american colleen]

Very long read but well worth it as this is not a "local" story but a national one.

[BlessedBeGod]

"But what will they do," wonders Notre Dame's Richard McBrien, contemplating the post-John Paul II church, "without their great patron?"

The Holy Father'll be more powerful after he dies than while he was living.

[JohnnyZ]

Yup, the good guys are out there workin' it!

[2timothy3.16]

Yes, we are in the last times, no way around that. But, what happens now? Does the Lord give us more time by bringing a real, true and powerful worldwide revival upon us or does He let things continue to degenerate the way they have been until there is not one true Washed in the Blood of the Lamb Christian left? I don't know, God knows, but I don't know, and neither do you. So, when you are unaware of when the shout will come, it is best to be prepared at all times.

Remember: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only....Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.... Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of man cometh."

[madprof98]

On so many of these issues, McCloskey seems already to have lost.

How they wish! The writer belongs to the same school of thought that imagined pro-lifers would just vanish by the year 2000.

[RobbyS]

As is the VOF represented more than a relative handful of the laity. If McBrien would get away from Notre Dame, he would discover that not many lay Catholics think the way he does.

[longtermmemmory]

The left is upset because their brand of bizarro world logic IS loosing. The left is not liberal OR progressive. The left is regressive. The left is REpressive. They have to be in order to IMPOSE thier totalitarian world view on how you SHALL behave under penalty of LAW. They SHALL make you conform or you will not be able to get a job. You SHALL conform to the left or you will not get bread. You SHALL conform by repudiating all that is not leftist as an example. You will be forbidden from expressiong any contradiction in thoughts for thinking those thoughts will be a crime.

The left has become the evil that demands vigilance.

[american colleen]

Gotta go for now (daughter needs the pc for her homework) but I am curious about the McCloskey/Hudson rift? I never heard that before... wonder if it is true?

Funny how the bolded headlines say that the orthodox might just "win out" but the body of the story seems to be trying to debunk that headline as much as possible.

[RobbyS]

They think they are in the majority, and they might be among college educated Catholics. After all, the liberals have had control of Catholic education for twenty years. Notice this idiot does not even consider how liberal Georgetown is.

[narses]

Ping.

[narses]

In a March 2002 Gallup Poll, 75 percent of Catholics in the United States favored the possibility of married priests and of women priests. Since 1970, polls of US Catholic women have consistently shown that more than 60 percent reject the Vatican's teachings on artificial birth control. More recently, a Harris Poll found that only 24 percent of American Catholics were opposed to embryonic stem-cell research. Other recent polls indicate that support for legalized abortion among US Catholics tracks closely with that found in the general population. McCloskey has no use for the borrowed language of political polling: He thinks that 52 percent or that 80 percent or that 70 percent should just leave the church, because they've left already.

Here on FR we are told these polls are meaningless, wrong and unreliable. What to think, who to believe?

[sinkspur]

Deal Hudson does not like John McCloskey.

I knew I liked Deal Hudson. Here's another reason.

McCloskey, with his "get out of my Church" arrogance, was a perfect foil during the sexual abuse crisis. Ever ready to pander, he was actually DEFENDING the bishops in their handling of the sexual abuse crisis.

McCloskey is a very ambitious young man, and will no doubt be named a bishop himself some day.

Let's hope his "I hope there won't be violence" attitude matures into that reflected in the mind and heart of John Paul II.

[Maximilian]

Very long read but well worth it as this is not a "local" story but a national one.

This is actually an outstanding piece of reporting. Forget the author's bias for a moment, and to be fair he doesn't let his bias interfere with the facts, and just look at the solid information he's providing which is more than you could get in a whole year from other publications.

[Maximilian]

I am curious about the McCloskey/Hudson rift? I never heard that before... wonder if it is true?

This was certainly the most fascinating part of the story. And very encouraging regarding Fr. C. John McCloskey. I've been rather uncomfortable with his "celebrity conversions," and when I saw him on TV with Richard McBrien, he was very evasive, not at all like this author describes him. But if McCloskey is willing to stand up against the sell-outs like Hudson, then maybe I should reconsider. I know you like Hudson, Colleen, and I know you have good personal reasons for doing so, but the rest of us have good reason to feel an automatic gag reflex when we see his name.

[Maximilian]

I knew I liked Deal Hudson.

Ha, ha, Colleen, here's more confirmation of my reaction to Hudson.

Ever ready to pander, he was actually DEFENDING the bishops in their handling of the sexual abuse crisis.

I have to agree with you Sinkspur on this one. I mentioned in my last post that I saw McCloskey across from McBrien on some talk show during the heat of the crisis. I have to say that McBrien won that one with a KO in every round. As I said in the last post, McCloskey was evasive, not willing to take a strong and principled stand.

McCloskey is a very ambitious young man, and will no doubt be named a bishop himself some day.

I wondered about the age they reported for him. If he was a stock trader back in the seventies, before he became a priest, could he really be only 49 today? Doesn't seem possible.

[Maximilian]

I really can't agree with the idea that this is a "slap-down" or less than "even-handed." It might make some uncomfortable, but only if they don't support McCloskey's positions. It's not really unfair in any way. Personally I find McCloskey's insight both intriguing and compelling. Is it really possible for those who support and those who don't support abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, pan-sexuality, etc. to live together in peace? History would indicate that the answer is "No."

[Salvation]

**American Catholic Church.**

The Globe errs in the first sentence!

There is no such thing as the 1American' Catholic Church. Only the Catholic Church.

[Desdemona]

The Boston Globe needs to get over the thought that the church is anything like a democracy. It just isn't. And all their carping isn't going to change anything. The Vatican is not likely to listen to the American media at this point.

Aside from that, the people who dissent didn't have enough kids to outnumber those who don't, so it's all going to come out in the wash in about two generations anyway.

[Salvation]

Voice of the Faithful is a dissenting organization.

It does not represent the Roman Catholic doctrine, nor does it speak for the Catholic Church.

Maybe more people need to write a letter to the editor and point out that they are entertaining mistaken images of the Catholic Church.