When Homosexuals Take Over A Church

UCM (?United Concerned/Confessing Methodists - page doesn't define acronym) News ^ | November 2003 | Bill Fishburne

[A.J.Armitage]

This church had no effective defenses because it had already abandoned Biblical orthodoxy and orthopraxis.

[irishtenor]

More like Utterly Depraved. Thank God for the Presbyterian form of government.

[Delphinium]

It wouldn't happen at my church because if it did , it wouldn't be my church.

[ahadams2]

You wrote "How can the Bishop et al allow this abomination to happen? I am just sick after reading this. That Church sounds like a den of iniquity."

Good question - this sort of thing doesn't happen overnight (obviously) but it can only happen to this extent if and when the bishop at least passively colludes with those attempting the perversion.... in other words either due to sexual or political issues of his own, the bishop is allowing this situation to exist. This is NOT an isolated instance - I received this info originally from a conservative Anglican discussion list - it turns out that the same sort of subversion has occurred within large portions of the episcopal church, where ever the local bishop has allowed it (though not always to this extent *yet*). As far as I can tell at this point, only about 40 percent of the bishops within the episcopal church are really Christian anymore. ...when one compares this to the Anglican Church in South America, Asia and Africa the distinctions are quite startling - anyone attempting this nonsense there would be bounced out the door so fast they wouldn't even hit the ground until they were past the curb...er, that's given there were curbs (or doors for that matter) in some of the 2/3rds World Anglican communities.

[CARepubGal]

How sad and scary. I think that many ECUSA parishes exceed Sproul's definitions of a MUST Leave Church.

[xzins]

Grampa, you are assuming that they will truthfully answer your questions. These are liars who worm their way into churches in order to injure them.

The use differing definitions of all the words that you use in your questions.

The best way to determine someone's position is to research their previous churches and ask lay people what they were like.

[xzins]

Yep.

I believe in staying and fighting.

But if you're not permitted to fight, then that removes the reason for staying.

At that point, "Come out of her, my people."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If this is happening in your new parish, you need to find yourself another church immediately.

But not before you tell everyone involved with this blasphemy the reasons for your departure.

Those who would encourage this garbage in a church are damned.

The writer of the article says he endured this homosexual assault on his family's spiritual well-being for six years!!!

It shouldn't take a sincere Christian more than a few Sunday mornings to discern that the pulpit has been usurped by vipers.

The more we tolerate this abomination, the bolder it becomes.

If you can't beat 'em, flee 'em.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thank God for the Presbyterian form of government.

Precisely.

[Wrigley]

Part of the gay strategy is finding a comfortable congregation. That makes the incremental takeover so much easier for them.

We need to pray that God gives congregation the gift of vigilance and the courage to stand up to the gay nonsense.

That is a sad, sad story.

[AnAmericanMother]

I disagree. It isn't always as easy as you think to discern what's going on until you have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

These people are deliberately setting out to infiltrate a congregation. They conceal their agenda, hold secret meetings, and cloak their actions in innocuous-sounding language. And Episcopalians are polite to a fault - they don't want to offend people.

Of course, with the "new look" in political action (and you see it with the Democrat party on the national scale too) politeness and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee. Maybe. So it's time for Episcopalians to shed their traditional politesse and take a stand.

[q_an_a]

the devil is at work in the agnda of the people that support these actions. take back your church. as a life long episcoplian I fear for the drifting of parishes as described in this letter. do not let your church allow this to happen.

[HarleyD]

How sad but such a great post. It sure shows how vigilant we need to remain. I feel so sorry for the conservative Epistopalians and have been praying for them.

[Grampa Dave]

Yep a warm and welcoming congregation is an obvious target for the gay predators.

They have been able to take our best Christian attributes and use those attributes against us. Just like the liberals have done over the past 40 years with their judge me not if you are a good Christian behavior.

[Grampa Dave]

It is amazing how honest they have been when asked these questions during interview processes.

Of course that is why you tell them up front if they lie on these basic tenants, they will be terminated.

So far it has worked for us with two curates and one deacon in training. The last curate has gone on to be our assistant priest. In fact some Episcopal Lites have complained that his sermons are often too close to the Gospel/the readings and belief in Christ and God.

Again if they don't believe in our basic tenants and faith, you don't want them in the same zip code, let alone on the clergy staff.

[snerkel]

2 Corinthians 11:14 "And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light"

[ahadams2]

You wrote "The writer of the article says he endured this homosexual assault on his family's spiritual well-being for six years!!!
It shouldn't take a sincere Christian more than a few Sunday mornings to discern that the pulpit has been usurped by vipers.
The more we tolerate this abomination, the bolder it becomes.
If you can't beat 'em, flee 'em."

You make some interesting observations - certainly we are to immediately flee the temptation to sexual sin, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. I would submit that it is perhaps an over simplification of the issue to tell people to simply run away, *if* they haven't first done everything they could to see if there are enough motivated conservative members of the parish to reverse what has occurred. This would be especially true in the case of someone who was deeply involved in the life of the parish.

Should he have continued to try for six years? that's a rough one to call without knowing more information concerning the over all composition of the parish in question. As has been noted here and on other similar threads, a problem not readily observable to non-Anglicans has been the ongoing issue of the Anglican tradition of attempting to be nice to folks, even in disagreement. What has been very difficult (indeed sometimes impossible) to communicate to some conservatives is that we are required to be confrontational, even directly confrontational, if a person's *actions are* heretical, regardless of whether they still say the right words.

If nothing else comes of all this, at the very least it is my hope (and the hope of many of us) that the Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians and so on who are also beginning to face these issues directly will go into them being more aware of the need to confront the heretics early and often...it certainly would have saved a lot of grief now, had our folks done so 20 - 30 years ago.

[ahadams2]

You wrote "The best way to determine someone's position is to research their previous churches and ask lay people what they were like."

Those are very good suggestions. Also check out the parish website - you'd be amazed what some folks will put on a parish website!

Additionally, unless the priest under consideration is currently associated with a tiny parish where any visitors would immediately be noticed, having a small group (say three or four) of the folks from the selection committee visit the prospective priest's current parish anonymously for a couple Sundays can be very revealing as well. You'd want to have at least two visits, and perhaps buying a few tape copies of the guy's sermons if they're for sale...something more parishes are doing these days.

[xzins]

see #38 by ahadams2

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I gave the wrong impression if you got from my post that I think one should give up without an aggressive, persistent and clear fight.

But the writer spent SIX YEARS in what looked to be a fairly passive struggle against these dark forces.

These people are deliberately setting out to infiltrate a congregation. They conceal their agenda, hold secret meetings, and cloak their actions in innocuous-sounding language.

Exactly. This warning should be printed up and handed out after church services across the country.

However, this writer was far more patient than I am. Apparently, he didn't recognize the insidious group brain-washing which he was subjected to (the Delphi Technique) that goes on when subversives want to undermine the common good.