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Factions Within the Church
Catholic.Org ^ | 11/25/2003 - 6:00 AM PST | John Michael Talbot

Posted on 12/01/2003 9:14:30 PM PST by narses

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Factions Within the Church

11/25/2003 - 6:00 AM PST

By John Michael Talbot

I am most aware of the various factions and parties within the Church today. Most of them make me a bit nervous. I prefer to simply be an obedient son of the Church, following the teachings of my bishop and the Bishop of Rome, Pope John Paul II. Perhaps some of my testimony would help any doubters to understand.

I first became a Roman Catholic because of 1) my love for scripture and desire for unity among the churches led me to the authority of scripture, tradition, and magisterium working together through apostolic succession in our bishops and the Peterine ministry in the Bishop of Rome; 2) the contemplative tradition evidenced not exclusively, but most strongly within Roman Catholicism, and; 3) the Church's strong support for most radical gospel communal expressions in and from the monastic/Franciscan/consecrated tradition.

When I became Catholic it was the most liberal theology that concerned me most. I thought, why not become a liberal Protestant if that is what you want? It is not illegal in our culture, nor is it looked down upon. But I had already been there, new its "sign," and found it wanting.

But now it is the far right wing reaction that concerns me most. It is a reactionary return to the legalities and externals of the Church of the modern pre Vatican II past (many of these things are themselves not really that ancient by Church history standards, but only go back some 400 years), without understanding the deeper spirit of the Church universal that drew me and many others into the Church.

This is the Church of the early fathers, the monastic and mendicant traditions, and the mystics and saints. Ironically, even as the early fathers were not afraid to appropriately use the language of Greek philosophy to bring the gospel to the primarily Greek western world, so does the Church appropriately guide us through the proper use of ecumenism and interfaith cooperation and practice. When the roots are really deep, the tree can reach up and out much further without the danger of toppling. It is only the more shallow rooted trees that must be constantly afraid.

The Church teaches us to be radical, but not fanatical (which is listed as a sin in the Didache, or teaching of the Twelve Apostles). A radical is rooted like a "radish," while a fanatic merely mimics the externals of genuine radicalism without really understanding its meaning or spirit.

We are rooted deeply in gospel fundamentals given us by Jesus and the Apostles, but we are not to be fundamentalists. One responds to the problems of the world and the Church with great love, patience, and steady perseverance. The other reacts with a sort of short-circuiting of both thought and emotions through an almost compulsive and paranoid preoccupation with "orthodoxy." It "misses the forest for the trees" so to speak. Genuine orthodoxy is meant to guide us to and deeper in God, not to be a god. One is healthy and life giving, the other strangles the spiritual life out of even orthodox belief and practice. Such an approach becomes a sort of inverted idolatry, making a god out of the otherwise good things of God.

Often the fundamentalist initially appears more "orthodox" because of the external conservatism of their language. But in the long run this proves to deviate from the real apostolic teaching of the Church due to its emotional preoccupation with external practice and mere ideas and words, both of which are meant to guide us to the living Incarnate Word, who gives us doctrine that, according to the excellent summaries of apostolic tradition by John Henry Newman, develops through every age.

The Brothers and Sisters of Charity and myself stand in union with Christ, the Church, and the bishops in union with the Bishop of Rome. The Church makes some mistakes at times, but God keeps us from the "gates of hell" in the long run. As my spiritual father used to teach me: The Church walks on the right foot, then the left, but she still goes in a straight line when seem from a bigger perspective. We need both the left and the right feet, but they need to work together with great humility and love for the other. When this is lacking we get stuck only on one or the other of our feet, and we begin to hop instead of walk with the full grace of God in Jesus. Though every era has its own set of problems, scandals, and clarifications, I have no doubt that the Church is still going in a straight line today.

The Brothers & Sisters of Charity is a Catholic based community made up of an integrated monastic expression of celibate brothers, celibate sisters, families and singles located at Little Portion Hermitage in Berryville, Arkansas, and a domestic expression of those world-wide in their own homes. This unique religious community is the only community of its type in the United States to be granted canonical status in the Catholic Church.

To learn more about John Michael Talbot and the Brothers and Sisters of Charity visit www.johnmichaeltalbot.com or www.littleportion.org

Contact: Troubadour for the Lord
http://www.troubadourforthelord.com  AR, US
John Michael Talbot - Catholic Recording Artist, 501-253-0256
Email: Jim@JohnMichaelTalbot.Com
Keywords: Catholic, Radical, John Michael Talbot


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1 posted on 12/01/2003 9:14:30 PM PST by narses
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To: GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...
But now it is the far right wing reaction that concerns me most. It is a reactionary return to the legalities and externals of the Church of the modern pre Vatican II past (many of these things are themselves not really that ancient by Church history standards, but only go back some 400 years), without understanding the deeper spirit of the Church universal that drew me and many others into the Church.

A fascinating read.

2 posted on 12/01/2003 9:16:40 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: narses
Narses, to me the "far right wing" is merely a pejorative that describes "those who oppose the left most strongly."

And, as the left is of and from Satan, whenever I see anybody using the term, "far right wing," warning bells go off.

On top of that, he actually uses the worn-out old communist slur, "reactionary," with an apparently straight face.

He pretends to be making a distinction between "fundamentalism" (bad) and "genuine orthodoxy" (good), but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that there's a lot of whacked-out smoke-of-Satan modernism in his "genuine orthodoxy" cabinet.
3 posted on 12/02/2003 12:57:03 AM PST by dsc
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To: narses
Thanks Narses, I do find this an interesting read. I would only cuation that what Talbot is actually describing is the Conservative wing of the Church and the factions within that wing. Here in the Detroit area only a handful of parishes would fit his scenario, the rest are so watered down in their Catholicism that anyone with enough Catholic thought left to form an opinion has long ago fled to these handful of parishes.

But, in looking at those few parishes I would agree with him. For instance, my parish is made up of old fashion devout Catholics most of whom grew up and voted for Democrats, more politically conservative Catholics who are looking for a more traditional church (alter rails but also solid priests), those who have "poped" (converted for intellectual reasons) to use an old English expression, many "re-verts" as they are called, and perhaps unique to our parish those who are coming out of the Charismatic movement and are politically conservation. This mix makes for interesting relationships but which can be stimulating in a good way. What is necessary for this very Catholic environment to succeed is for there to be an exceptional pastor, which we are fortunate to have.

4 posted on 12/02/2003 3:39:00 AM PST by Diva
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To: narses
I need to look into this person more. This is the third time in a week that I have been looking at the name John Michael Talbot in an article..
5 posted on 12/02/2003 5:09:32 AM PST by .45MAN ("We Will be saved by our belief and deeds, faining ignorance will destroy us")
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To: dsc; narses
It would appear that Wojtyla has gotten to Talbot. His "can't we all just get along" approach certainly originates with Wojtyla's desire for ecumenism which reeks of religious indifferentism. Talbot is a fool if the thinks the Catholic Church is protected by the Holy Spirit. He is a dupe. The Holy Spirit has left the building long, long ago. In it's place can only be found a voodoo promoting, Koran kissing, Islamofascist embracing, queer protecting cabal of commie loving destuctors. If Talbot can't recogonize that sad fact, the chalice from which he sips is filled with Kool-aid.
6 posted on 12/02/2003 5:26:06 AM PST by St.Chuck
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To: narses
I have never met the type of Catholic that this author describes. I do meet, continually, hard left wing dissenters who were never catechized and know the social gospel only.

Perhaps this author never leaves his home?
7 posted on 12/02/2003 5:59:27 AM PST by johnb2004
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To: narses
The author is mixing apples and oranges perhaps? On the one hand he is saying that the Holy Spirit will prevail and so the Church will not be led into error and on the other hand, he says that we must remain in union with our bishops and priests as they are in union with Rome. The first two things are absolutely correct but the third thing requires discernment. So, would that mean that we are to be in union with Cardinal Mahony and/or Bishop Bruskewicz equally? How do I know which one of them is in union with Rome? Do I heed the words of Fr. McBrien or Fr. Fessio? What do I do about my own parish priest who has stated that he thinks we should pull away from Rome because Rome doesn't understand Americans? Is he in union with Rome?

Why is progressivism accepted as "the Church will not be led into error" and Catholic traditionalism is accepted as "Fundamentalism" and "externalism" and "fanaticism"?

An altogether aggravating article.

8 posted on 12/02/2003 6:38:38 AM PST by american colleen
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: narses
**I first became a Roman Catholic because of 1) my love for scripture and desire for unity among the churches led me to the authority of scripture, tradition, and magisterium working together through apostolic succession in our bishops and the Peterine ministry in the Bishop of Rome; 2) the contemplative tradition evidenced not exclusively, but most strongly within Roman Catholicism, and; 3) the Church's strong support for most radical gospel communal expressions in and from the monastic/Franciscan/consecrated tradition.**

Great find and post!
Thank you!
11 posted on 12/02/2003 7:07:55 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: .45MAN
John Micael Talbot is a Catholic musician

Wonderful!

One CD that I have is "On Holy Ground">
12 posted on 12/02/2003 7:09:04 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: narses
But now it is the far right wing reaction that concerns me most. It is a reactionary return to the legalities and externals of the Church of the modern pre Vatican II past (many of these things are themselves not really that ancient by Church history standards, but only go back some 400 years), without understanding the deeper spirit of the Church universal that drew me and many others into the Church.

I would be interested in knowing which "legalities and externals" he is talking about that supposedly "only go back some 400 years". If he is saying that the Mass and the pre-Vatican II understanding of ecumenism originated only 400 years ago, I would have to disagree.

13 posted on 12/02/2003 7:44:58 AM PST by Stingray51
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To: sandyeggo
Give/send him a copy of Pope Leo XIII's letter on Americanism. :)

LOL! But the real Church finally "got it" after Vatican II and nothing written before that counts, ya know!

14 posted on 12/02/2003 8:34:37 AM PST by american colleen
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