Posted on 02/15/2004 9:04:48 PM PST by xzins
Indeed, it is not in looking at how depraved we are (because we certainly are), it is in looking at how good and holy God is.
Excellent point, and my answer is no.
As you point out, such a faith is not real faith. To say you believe that God's sending a flood and wants you to build an ark, and then not do the work of building it, is either a sign of disbelief or rebellion.
All who clung to the outside of the ark, if there were any, were all people who drowned.
It is looking at how good and holy God is.....look from the wound to the remedy
For me, I came to Christ late in life and I know when within the day. While I occasionally yet lament having been so wrong for so long and wasted so much of my life, being able to see so crisply within myself the fruit of regeneration described in the bible. To be able to literally know, albeit after the fact, and see the sanctifying evidence of the Holy Spirit has been most affirming. Those of us who did not grow up saved from childhood or adolesence, do have a marked "before and after" comparison which can strengthen and straighten our walk with Jesus.
God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Some people say, "If I were only as good as that minister I should feel so safe" or, "If I were only as good as that mother in Israel who has been praying fifty years for the poor and unfortunate, should I not feel very safe? " My friends, if you are behind the blood, you are as safe as any man or woman who has been praying for fifty years. It is not their righteousness and good works that are going to save them. They never saved any one. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you."
This is where the issue of "faith alone" confuses people. The issue is not the strength of one's faith, but the strength of the object of one's faith. As an adult, I have great faith the sun will rise tommorrow but that won't save me. As a believer, I only need a mustard seed of faith that the Son already rose, and He can save me. The new believer's faith is that of a child; untested, immature, faltering. But the object of that faith - Jesus - is not. If our faith is in Jesus alone (and not in ourselves or others or doctrines) and assuming it is a sincere faith, then it is God who sees the blood and passes over. Our faith is in God and His promises, not our prayer.
Now, there is nothing in looking at a piece of brass which can cure the bite of a serpent. It is God who cures it, and the looking is the condition. It is obedience; and that is what God will have.
This can not be emphasized enough.
God requires obedience. To Him, His Son, His Spirit, His Word. If one sincerely puts their faith in Jesus and repents (obeys), the fruit follows. They become doers of the word, not merely hearers. Their works are evidence of their salvation. No obedience, no doing of the word, no fruit, - no salvation, the faith in Christ was insincere.
Obedience is not easy. It has been remarked that it is not that following Christ has been tried and found wanting, but following Christ has been tried and found difficult. Believers are in fact promised trials and suffering (it is in fact evidence of the Refiners fire), but He will equip and strengthen us and use it all for our good.
The sinner's prayer and baptism (when done sincerely, honestly) are merely expressions of faith in, and obedience to, Christ.
HarleyD, hopefully we are all washed up. In the blood of Jesus.
There is a Balm in Gilead
to make the wounded whole;
there is a balm in Gilead
to heal the sin-sick soul.
In terms of one's selfish desires and ambitions? No.
In terms of examining one's own life, recognizing our unworthiness and need for the Spirit's guidance? Absolutely.
True. But, again, should the reward received determine what we choose to believe?
Jesus, Himself, undeniably, made use of the promise of such reward to compel men to come to Him.Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
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John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
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John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Brings to mind a hymn that starts off, "There is a fountain filled with blood, drawn from Immanuel's veins. And sinners plunged beneath the flood lose all their guilty stains..."
Thank you for the ping, my dear brother in Christ!
True, and points well made. However, if we determine whom to believe in and whom to follow based solely on who offers the biggest reward for doing so, where does that leave us? Should we not compare other's offers of rewards and punishments and pick the best combination to determine our choice? Is this to be our criteria?
So the question, again: should the reward promised determine what we choose to believe?
So the question, again: should the reward promised determine what we choose to believe?
It seems to me that love and truth should be factors, as well.
We will (or at least ought to) be punished temporarlly for believing in Jesus. We will or ought to suffer persecution. But we will be rewarded eternally. That is the good news.
I'm not sure I know what you are saying. Are you saying that you think that I am saying that if we thought we would be punished for believing in Jesus that we wouldn't come to him. Of course we're going to be punished for believing in Jesus. It goes with the territory. But the fear that drives us to salvation is the fear of him who has the power to destroy souls in Hell, not him who has the power to destroy our temporal bodies or to punish us temporally for our beliefs.
The Gospel is Good News. That resonates with our selfish being. Although we are to deny ourselves and pick up the cross and follow Jesus, we often do it out of a concern for our eternal destiny. Hell fire and brimstone sermons often get the best results. People don't want to go to hell. Sure that's selfish. Its also reasonable. And coming to Christ to avoid that possibility is the right thing to do.
Why not believe in someone else who teaches there is no hell to avoid (or disbelieve Jesus) - if self-interest is your goal.
1st Corinthians 15:1-4........This 'Jesus' (The ONLY-God-Man) understood and received personally as God and Saviour.
The 'Qualifier' ALWAYS being,......'According to THE SCRIPTURES'.....!!!
Because there IS a hell. And if I did what you suggest, I'd surely go there. Wouldn't I?
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