A Fireside Chat with Cardinal George

myself | 8 March 2004 | myself

[johnb2004]

Why should I trust your numbers over Santorum's? The rest of your post about George I think is accurate. I doubt George was misquoted. I think he should spend more time on correcting his wayward pals than talking about legal issues that amount to conjecture.

[St.Chuck]

Are Colleges more or less regulated than K-12 education?

I think there might be a correlation between the influx of public monies in Catholic universities and the decrease of Catholicism in Catholic universities. If true, vouchers should be opposed.

Vouchers are the most important innovation we could make to save the next generation.

I can't see it as anything but educational welfare. I suppose if, as you say, it will save the next generation, then that would be OK to the run-of-the-mill Republican-type big government dependent. Some conservatives,however, might object to having their portion of taxes given to non-taxpaying parents so they could pretend to be taxpayers, and pretend to have earned the right to have educational choices for their children. Vouchers would be like giving food stamp recipients the right to use their benefits to eat at The Outback or MacDonald's. Vouchers seem to be an unjust and unfair innovation and would only serve to dilute the sense of community and like-thinking that attracts private school users. Vouchers are not the 21st century equivalent to the wonder of canned beer and sliced bread.

[ninenot]

I believe that the last two words of the Dirksen quote were "REAL money." Great quote.

As to Santorum: he points out that CathCharities (not just in NYC, LA, or SFO) has a problem: they are taking money from Gummints to do their job.

It so happens that in a lot of cases the Gummints have solicited CathChar. to do the work, or have seen the work's effect and decided to fund some/all.

Regardless, Santorum's monitum is valid. The fact is that them what pays the piper calls the tune, and CathChar, nationally as well as locally, is not well-positioned any more.

[ninenot]

...Santorum...possibly the dumbest politician...

Glad you used the term "politician."

Santorum is "dumb" only to the extent that he speaks the truth, fearlessly, unlike the snake you Pennsy types have re-elected ad nauseam, Spectral Specter.

Truly, Spectral is smart, as a politician.

He has evaded truth-telling for at least 20 years.

The dumb ones are the ones who vote for him.

Think about that...

[ninenot]

It's likely that Santorum was using numbers which combine Fed, State, and local funding sources for CathChar.

IIRC, the national total is over 50%, when all those sources are taken into account.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

As the person who quoted him here, there is no direct quote, since I wrote this two hours after hearing him speak, however, he envisions a court (the Supreme Court) shoving something upon the Church (ordination is just the thing he mentioned). Take it, how you will.

[WOSG]

I can't see it as anything but educational welfare."

we can replace the $350 billion we spend on teachers unions and a monopoly public school system with $260 billion spent to give to a school choice program.

How is this 'welfare' a bad thing compared to the more socialistic status quo?

"Some conservatives,however, might object to having their portion of taxes given to non-taxpaying parents "
Yes, some conservatives are that narrow-minded that they would rather pay more to a bad school system that doesnt teach kids than pay less for a better school system, all so they can look down on the unfortunates stuck in the monopoly failed schools and blame them!

Then there are those who it seems have not thought logically about the matter and somehow think that a reform that REDUCES GOVERNMENT CONTROL on education is BAD, while using argument that complain about such control. IMHO that is illogical.

And last, there are those who are simply misinformed and dont realize that there is such huge waste in education that vouchers could save taxpayers a lot of money over time.
Think: Giving $350 billion to a huge monopoly school system run by the NEA is *not* educational welfare? It's *not* socialism?

"Vouchers would be like giving food stamp recipients the right to use their benefits to eat at The Outback or MacDonald's."

Yes, good analogy.

Food stamps, as opposed to the current Soviet Union -style system which is to give the money directly to monopoly bureaucrats, who run the system entire under Government control, with no private input or competition. So yes, to compare agricultural metaphor, I am proposing something like food stamps to replace something like the Soveit Union-style collective farming. Which is better?

"Vouchers seem to be an unjust and unfair innovation"
Other than the NEA and teacers unions, who is hurt?

" and would only serve to dilute the sense of community and like-thinking that attracts private school users."
Actually that is exactly backwards. And I can speak from personal experience.
I *am* a private school user and I can tell you what attracts me - a school that teaches well.
There are many parents like me, but unfortunately they
lack the means or the opportunity find a school. The community of that school is very much built up by the fact that it has a divese group of kids, this is partly because this particular school teaches better than the public school and does it for about $3000 a student, less than half the cost of our public school. Even parents of modest means send their kids here, and I like that fact. I would rather my kids learn with kids from all background
I know there are snobs out there who want to send kids to 'prestige' schools and want to keep out the riff-raff. Well that's fine, the school that wants to be that way doesnt have to take vouchers. The school that wants to be like Hillsdale College and refuse money - that's fine too.
But for the many of us who want quality education at an affordable price, and who hate the failed secularized PC monopoly school system, there is not much of a choice.
I have chosen to go to this paticular private school AND I KNOW THAT A $3500 SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM COULD SAVE OUR CITY ALONE TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND IMPORVE EDUCATION AT THE SAME TIME.

Such a program would build communities because what you find in those schools are parents who are involved. Give parents the right to have influence and they quickly take up the responsibility. I see it in our private school and I have heard enough horror stories (bad teachers that parents have no ability to change, one guy got so fed up he just pulled em out and homeschooled 'em, he could change anything at the public school)... so community would be enhanced if we brought choice and vouchers in.

" Vouchers are not the 21st century equivalent to the wonder of canned beer and sliced bread."
No, education is tad more important than that.
Do you really like the current Soviet-style education system? Do you rally want the next generation raised on ACLU/NEA value? then oppose school choice!

[WOSG]

"they are taking money from Gummints to do their job."

To be exactly precise, Catholic Charities is taking Government money to do something that the Government wants done. It just so happens that Catholic Charities has been serving children and the poor since 1724 with health and education charitable services. They did privately what the welfare state does today.

"It so happens that in a lot of cases the Gummints have solicited CathChar. to do the work, or have seen the work's effect and decided to fund some/all."

Right. So the Govt likes good deeds of charity, starts funding them to do more, then turns around and says, "btw, why dont you do it this way instead?" forcing the charities to either downscope thier work and mission or undermine their independence. A Hobson's choice they should not have to face.

"The fact is that them what pays the piper calls the tune"

Oh Really. The TAXPAYERS pays the piper but I dont see taxpayers calling the tune, its the leftist dependency brigade and cultural elites calling it. how come the leftist dependent non-taxpaying powers get to call any tune? Somehow the taxpayers have not done enough to assert their own powers and rights here.

Far too many people think that just because the Government contracts something, we should be non chalant about the offensive rules they impose on the process. Stuff like Davis Bacon, or AA setasides, or egregious Title IX women's sports rules on colleges. Not to mention the billions on Federal sex ed and sex harrassment policies for 6 year olds forced on local school districts.

That all really gets my goat and boggles my mind that so-called freepers arent more outraged by it when it occurs here. Catholic Charities is no more to blame for this rule than is a specific college for the awful Title IX. Most of bad Government in the US today is in the form of regulations and laws that force people to do what their own common sense and correct moral leanings would call wrong. This latest farce in Cali is one example.

[GirlShortstop]

Santorum is "dumb" only to the extent that he speaks the truth, fearlessly, unlike the snake you Pennsy types have re-elected ad nauseam, Spectral Specter.

LOL.  Rick Santorum is the reason for my "jealousy" of my Pennsy neighbors.  He truly is a good man.

[ninenot]

Still and all: Wisconsin's choice system (arguably the oldest in the country) has operated exactly as one would wish for the last 15 years. Then last year, a couple of frauds were discovered.

Now our Dimowit Gov'nr, Ayatollah Doyle, is using the frauds to call for "accountability" from the choice schools--which will include testing standards for the time being, but as other "violations" are uncovered by the Teachers' Union, will grow to include requirements for teachers' standards, curriculum standards, etc., etc.

The reality is that "choice" vouchers WILL lead to control by the Gummint. They can't help it--and any rational individual can follow the logic: if it's taxpayer money, it MUST be accountable money.

The upshot: get your kids into a voucher program as SOON as possible. After 15-20 years, the program will be just another Gummint school system.

[ninenot]

I agree with you, totally.

And we should??? Attend all the regulator's meetings? Attend all the legislative committee meetings and sessions? Physically expel Gummint types who show up at the doors of CathChar operations?

Yeah.