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To: Viva Christo Rey; ninenot; GirlShortstop; saradippity; Siobhan; american colleen; B-Chan; ...
I missed the part where Paul IV was soliciting the opinions of excommunicates (Marcel Lefebvre and the Econe Four) and schismatics (the adherents of SSPX) as to the orthodoxy of popes and the part where an alleged deviation from the alleged terms of private revelation might be relevant. If you too are an adherent of SSPX, so long, see ya later, bye. If you are a sedevacantist, likewise.

Are you arguing that the See of Peter is vacant pursuant to 6 (vi) or otherwise)? If so, say so and specify your reasons for being a sedevacantist. Also, since the Counterreformation document cited refers only to matters arising PRIOR to one's elevation to the papacy, the date when you are alleging that JP II fell into heresy. Otherwise, please state your obedience to the pontiff because disobedience is not justified otherwise by the document cited.

The words alleged to have been communicated by Mary at LaSalette are nonetheless PRIVATE REVELATION and do not require belief. Do you claim otherwise? If you do, please specify what authoritative Church document commands doctrinal assent to private revelation.

In any event, who decides? Who executes the decision? Will there be a schismatic sort of Swiss guard charging the papal palace with halberds to remove the allegedly offending pontiff? Will bishop Fellay issue an SSPX fatwa and the pope scurry from the Vatican upon his command? Will it be a committee of SSPX's excommunicated bishops and schismatic priests theoretically under their non-existent authority? Perhaps a committee of Chris Ferraro, Tom Woods and Tom Drolesky and similarly sober scholars in love with their own opinions? The Remnant editorial board? The Angelus editorial board? Fr. Gruner?

Items 2 through 5 of Paul IV's document seem absent but he referenced "certain people who consider the study of the truth beneath them (and) should be driven out of the sheepfold of Christ and no longer continue to disseminate error from positions of authority..." Did he identify the "certain people?" What else has been edited out lest we consider the content?

Why is the language in the introductory paragraph of 6 bracketed which talks of the document remaining valid in perpetuity? Did Paul IV say so or not?

It sometimes seems like some of you guys would like to turn the papacy into a sort of ongoing Young Republican credentials fight of some sort wherein every schismatic or excommunicated Tom , Dock or Harriet can weigh in at any time with bloviation questioning the Catholicism of the pope based upon Tom or Dick or Harriet's OPIOS, OPIOT or OPIOF. This is a prescription for Heinz's 5700 varieties of Protestantism (each and every sect claiming to have the "right" understanding of Scripture or whatever as opposed to all the others), for religious anarchy posing as Roman Catholicism without warrant, or the same old same old of those thrown out of the game questioning the credentials of the umpire. In any event, there is no reason Catholics who are in communion with the Holy See to give such a satanic stew of arguments and prescriptions the time of day.

With the dissenters or without, the Roman Catholic Church will prevail to the end as promised by Jesus Christ.

37 posted on 03/24/2004 4:30:18 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
Right On Target Black Elk!!

It seems that the overiding concern of these people is the importance (cleverness/intellect) of their own opinions.

When Peter was confronted with a very obvious situation where Jesus was being arrested, he responded with his own opinion which was "let's fight and defend The Lord". When told "put down your sword" he obeyed regardless of his own opinion. When the vicar of Christ tells us something is right (or wrong), I obey regardless of my own opinion. Time for all sedevacantists, SSPX's, etc to put their own puny opinions aside and listen to the Church!
51 posted on 03/24/2004 5:53:35 PM PST by GoBoks (Please pledge your Prayers for the Holy Souls in Purgatory at http://www.MTEP.com)
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To: BlackElk
Yes, only Novus Ordians have the true faith - especially those who espouse "speaking in Tongues" or "baptism of the spirit" (apparently a new sacrament - how wonderful - just like the new mysteries of the Rosary - obviously the Holy Mother wasn't wise enough to capture all of the mysteries). So now we understand that those who cleave to the ancient faith are "Grunerites", etc. - and yet we see that "Pope JP II" meeting with heretics and pagans in pictures above - obviously he was right then - but that doesn't apply to those who don't accept the the new novelties! Shame, shame on us who refuse to worship at the feet of the false prophet! Even if he abandons the True Faith. I suggest that all the Nervus DisOrdians do just as JPII does - get blessed by a Voodoo Priest - have naked women at your masses - and have a Indian priestess put ashes on your head - then come back and tell us how wrong we are - give me a break!
72 posted on 03/24/2004 9:07:30 PM PST by LiveFreeOrDieAmerica
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