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Brigham Young on the Insufficiency of the Blood of Christ
Deseret News; JOD Vol 4, pp 53-54
| 1856
| Brigham Young
Posted on 04/21/2004 4:32:43 AM PDT by ksen
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Well Mormons, what say you? Are there sins for which the Blood of Jesus is insufficient?
1
posted on
04/21/2004 4:32:44 AM PDT
by
ksen
To: White Mountain; restornu
Well? What sins are too much for the Blood of Jesus?
(Please ping your Mormon friends to this)
2
posted on
04/21/2004 6:49:25 AM PDT
by
ksen
(This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; jude24; ...
Ping....
3
posted on
04/21/2004 6:50:11 AM PDT
by
ksen
(This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
To: ksen
Doesn't the Bible speak of "the sin against the Holy Spirit" which can not be remitted?
SD
To: ksen
I guess God is not sufficient enough for Mormons. Maybe somebody else will cover their sins, but I doubt it. (sarcasm)
5
posted on
04/21/2004 7:00:23 AM PDT
by
freebush
(Why should I care?)
To: SoothingDave
Is that a "can not", or a "will not" statement, SD?
To: SoothingDave
Doesn't the Bible speak of "the sin against the Holy Spirit" which can not be remitted?No, it speaks of "the sin against the Holy Spirit" which will not be remitted. Big difference.
7
posted on
04/21/2004 7:04:29 AM PDT
by
ksen
(This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
To: Alex Murphy
Is that a "can not", or a "will not" statement, SD? Good point.
I'm not sure what Brigham Young is getting at here. Perhaps we should wait for a response that puts this into context before blasting it.
SD
To: ksen
No, it speaks of "the sin against the Holy Spirit" which will not be remitted. Big difference. Yep. My error.
SD
To: ksen
The Mormon Church leadership in the 1970's stated that the Book of Mormon was either absolutely right or absolutely wrong. They added that if it was right, there was no way to get to Heaven of you did not believe it and if it was wrong there was no way to get to heaven if you did believe it.
It's also interesting to note that not a single shred of scientific or archeological evidence has ever been found to support the claims in the Book of Mormon.
My prayer is that more Mormons will come to know the truth of Jesus Christ.
To: ksen
Interesting post my Elect brother.
Bump for a later read...
11
posted on
04/21/2004 7:30:51 AM PDT
by
Gamecock
("We must remember that Satan has his miracles, too." John Calvin)
To: ksen
Thankee for the ping, but I stay inside during that kind of weather.
:-)
12
posted on
04/21/2004 8:18:42 AM PDT
by
jboot
(Faith is not a work)
To: defendingright
A friend of mine is a former Mormon, and now finishing his PhD in Theology and Biblical Studies. His favorite challenge for Mormon missionaries, after showing them the maps in the back of his Bible, is to ask them to show him the "Mormon" maps.
To: Alex Murphy
Assuming that it is translated correctly, you make an excellent point.
14
posted on
04/21/2004 8:52:38 AM PDT
by
Wrigley
To: SoothingDave; All
I'm not sure what Brigham Young is getting at here. Perhaps we should wait for a response that puts this into context before blasting it. Couple of points:
In the LDS way of things, "atonement" has to do with forgiveness and "entrance into heaven" - but it would do well to remember that in the LDS way of things there are actually three levels of heaven, and moving up from one level to the next is achieved via obedience in lifestyle or to some ordinance or practice. One does not make it into the Celestial Heaven on Jesus' blood alone. When we discuss "blood atonement" and the LDS church, we are not discussing forgiveness and "going to heaven" in the same context and system that Protestants (and presumably Catholics) do.
Second, the above speech is not an isolated case. There are numerous other sermon examples which could be cited, and several controversial historic examples (the Mountain Meadows Massacre being the most obvious) that could be raised for - or against - the argument that "blood atonement" was taught to, or practiced by, the nineteenth century LDS membership and heirarchy.
Third, the work quoted at the top of the thread, the "Journal Of Discourses", is a multi-volume collection of speeches and sermons given by the various members of the LDS hierarchy that has been published, revised, and republished numerous times, over the course of a century and a half. None of it's contents, although published by the church-owned Deseret Book Company, have not been canonized by the LDS heirarchy, thus no LDS member is morally bound to keep or reject them. What the Journal does, however, is provide volumes of first-hand testimony of how the various LDS latter-day prophets applied the canonical works, in thought and practice, in their personal lives and how they interpreted and exhorted said works to the masses.
Finally, it should be noted that the term "doctrine" probably should be avoided when speaking of "blood atonement" here. "Doctrine" is a buzzword like "canonical" for the LDS, and it means the LDS heirarchy has formally adopted it into whatever they use as a creed or code. "Commonly held belief" would be a better phrase to use in the context of Brigham Young's sermon on "blood atonement".
To: Alex Murphy
One does not make it into the Celestial Heaven on Jesus' blood alone.
What, pray tell, DOES it take to make it into the Celestial Heaven?
To: FactQuest
What, pray tell, DOES it take to make it into the Celestial Heaven? Special underwear, among other things.
To: Alex Murphy
Special underwear, among other things.
Is that what it says on the golden plates?
Did they ever turn up those plates?
To: BossyRoofer; CubicleGuy; Dan(9698); Dementon; Grig; Jeff Head; John Jamieson; Jolly Green; ...
Are there sins for which the Blood of Jesus is insufficient?The silence is deafening.
19
posted on
04/21/2004 10:19:55 AM PDT
by
ksen
(This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
To: ksen
HEBREW9V11-15
If the total word of God is not part of the belief structure,then they are not followers of Christ.
20
posted on
04/21/2004 10:48:50 AM PDT
by
alpha-8-25-02
(saved by GRACE and GRACE alone)
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