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To: Campion
But the sacraments of the New Law are not anything "we have done," but are works Christ has done in is. The same St. Paul you cite says "as many as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ" (Gal 3:27). Does that sound like the Sacraments are irrelevant?

The sacraments are most definitely something you "do." Can you be baptized without doing anything? No. For that matter, while we are on the subject of baptism, where do we see infant baptism in the Bible? In the Bible, baptism is consistently seen as an act, by an adult, as an outward show of repentance. Back to the point, it is an act of righteousness. It can't save. According to scripture, it is simply an act of obedience, which follows salvation.

Christ himself says with crystal clarity, "Whose sins you remit, are remitted; whose sins you hold bound, are held bound." (Jn 20:23) He addresses those words to the apostles, who gave that power to their successors, the bishops, who delegate that power to their priests. Why do you think St. Paul contradicts Christ? He doesn't!

Where does it say that they had the authority to transfer the authority to forgive sin? More important theologically was the splitting of the curtain in the holy of holies at Christ's crucifixion. Christ's death made the way for people to come directly into the presence of God Almighty, without priests. And, in the various passages where it discusses the roles in the church, you'll notice there are teachers, and preachers, and givers, and helpers, but no forgivers. Christ is the forgiver. Jesus himself taught us how to pray... "forgive us our sin" - if we can pray directly to God, and He is the One who can forgive, then He is the One to Whom we should confess. Ok, not exclusively, we are also encouraged to confess to each other. Which means it is certainly "okay," scripturally, for us to confess to a priest. But there are plenty of other instances where we are taught confession is directed to God.

I realize, of course, we are unlikely to see eye-to-eye on this. May God bless you.
43 posted on 04/30/2004 11:47:27 AM PDT by FactQuest
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To: FactQuest
The sacraments are most definitely something you "do."

Then so is repentance, belief, "taking Jesus as your personal Savior", prayer, Bible study ... etc. You'd better not do those, either.

For that matter, while we are on the subject of baptism, where do we see infant baptism in the Bible?

Tell me, when were Jewish boys circumcised? On the eighth day? When Peter speaks in Acts, he says "the promise is to you and to your children". What Peter giveth, FactQuest taketh away?

In the Bible, baptism is consistently seen as an act, by an adult, as an outward show of repentance.

Nonsense. Nothing in Scripture calls baptism "an outward show of repentance". Christ condemns anything done as an "outward show of repentance". Nothing in Scripture limits baptism to adults, either.

You have exalted the errors of Zwingli on the sacraments to be the equal of Scripture. Is Zwingli infallible? He'd better be, because you're taking his word about things, even down to saying things that are demonstrably false.

Where does it say that they had the authority to transfer the authority to forgive sin?

Same place it says they had the authority to write a single word of the New Testament.

Christ's death made the way for people to come directly into the presence of God Almighty, without priests

The English word "priest" corresponds to and is derived from the Greek presbyter, or elder, an office which is clearly instituted in the NT.

44 posted on 04/30/2004 12:01:10 PM PDT by Campion
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To: FactQuest; Campion
Where does it say that they had the authority to transfer the authority to forgive sin?

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.

60 posted on 04/30/2004 2:12:30 PM PDT by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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