Those Whom He Foreknew He Predestined

desiringGOD.org ^ | October 13, 1985 | John Piper

[kansas_goat_roper]

I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT WE OR I CHOOSE GOD. THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS OF SIN, NO WAIT A MINUTE THERE IS NO NEED OF CONVICTION WITH CALVINISM YOUR PREDESTINED. THERE WAS REALLY NO NEED FOR THE ATONEMENT YOUR PREDESTINED. YOUR PART OF THE GOOD OL BOYS CLUB PREDESTINED ELECTED SELECTED. NO NEED TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN WEATHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT. THE ODDS ARE AGAINST YOU THAT NOT EVERYONE IN YOUR FAMILY IS PART OF THE ELECT, SO I GUESS YOU WON'T BE SEEING THEM IN HEAVEN....RIGHT!

[sr4402]

This is a discussion thread. Shouting is not conducive to a forum such as this.

[RnMomof7]

Good post , thanks

[HarleyD]

Most non-Calvinists would say the Holy Spirit convicts but it is up to the individual to choose to place their faith in Jesus. It is, then, their choice. I hope you don't feel all your family members may not make it to heaven because of your failed attempts at convincing them to take that "leap of faith".

Calvinists believe it is God who elects individuals. If God does not elect our family members that is His sovereign will.

Mat 10:37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

Since Calvinists do not know who the elect are, we are to preach the word to all.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Do you believe God wrote the names of the elect in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world?

[RnMomof7]

Matt 11:28 28 Come unto me, ALL ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That is a true assurance..but I ask again who is the "all" that will choose to come? Might it be those that the "Father draws "?

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Think about that EVERY MAN that hears and is taught BY THE FATHER comes to Him. There are no free will exceptions in this .

Every one the Father draws and teaches comes. The Grace of God NEVER fails.It is always effective in the purpose it is sent for.

[RnMomof7]

I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT WE OR I CHOOSE GOD. THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS OF SIN, NO WAIT A MINUTE THERE IS NO NEED OF CONVICTION WITH CALVINISM YOUR PREDESTINED. THERE WAS REALLY NO NEED FOR THE ATONEMENT YOUR PREDESTINED. YOUR PART OF THE GOOD OL BOYS CLUB PREDESTINED ELECTED SELECTED. NO NEED TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN WEATHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT. THE ODDS ARE AGAINST YOU THAT NOT EVERYONE IN YOUR FAMILY IS PART OF THE ELECT, SO I GUESS YOU WON'T BE SEEING THEM IN HEAVEN....RIGHT!"

Why are you yelling? You do not understand Calvinism . You are shadow boxing. Calvinists believe that God ordained the means and method of salvation. Every man MUST repent and believe to be saved. That is Gods plan .PLEASE do not slander us with your misunderstanding.

What we do believe is that no man will choose to repent and believe without being Born again (regenerated) by the grace of God.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

If you have repented and believed you are one of the elect. You are not elect because of your choice , but you believed BECAUSE you are elect.

God has graciously allowed men to participate in HIS plan of salvation by using us to give the gospel ,

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

As you read in John everyone taught of God will come with out fail.

Gods will is ALWAYS done when the Bible is preached

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:> it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.

I was looking for your answer to my earlier post on election by foreknowledge. Have you compiled one yet?

[ksen]

I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT WE OR I CHOOSE GOD. THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS OF SIN, NO WAIT A MINUTE THERE IS NO NEED OF CONVICTION WITH CALVINISM YOUR PREDESTINED. THERE WAS REALLY NO NEED FOR THE ATONEMENT YOUR PREDESTINED. YOUR PART OF THE GOOD OL BOYS CLUB PREDESTINED ELECTED SELECTED. NO NEED TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN WEATHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT. THE ODDS ARE AGAINST YOU THAT NOT EVERYONE IN YOUR FAMILY IS PART OF THE ELECT, SO I GUESS YOU WON'T BE SEEING THEM IN HEAVEN....RIGHT!

Whoa, Kansas hit the key right underneath your tab key.

[ksen]

BTW, nice tagline.....is that inspired by the verse to treat our wives like the weaker vessel?

[alpha-8-25-02]

the Lord definately gives his chosen rest.
if you want to stay in the gospels we will.
let's go to john 6.as you know the Lord is preaching to roughly 15-20 thousand,now we have to agree that if Jesus Christ was preaching what better preacher to get some individual to accept him.however at the end of the day only the original 12 where walking with Him.
john 6v65
and He said,"thefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by my Father."
so there we have it from the source.
john 6 is all about election.
the grpl is not preachimg grace because our belief doctrine is doubting anyones salvation,simply man cannot save himself.

[Frumanchu]

kgr, please do me a favor. Navigate to a copy of the Westminster Confession of Faith. It is really not that long a document and is about as detailed (yet concise) an explanation of the Reformed view as you will get.

The arguments you are making are against a position that Calvinists do not hold, and as such waste both your time and ours.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If you have repented and believed you are one of the elect. You are not elect because of your choice, but you BELIEVED because you are elect.

Pretty simple, RnMom. Amazing so many get it backwards and inside out.

"Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." -- 1 Peter 1:13

[Gamecock]

If you are just going to sream, i will have to put you on my bozo list.

Oh, wait, that's another site.. ;-)

[ladyinred]

It was necessary to ping the mod you think? I thought you handled yourself pretty well all alone.

[jude24]

THERE IS NO NEED OF CONVICTION WITH CALVINISM YOUR PREDESTINED.

Okaaaay.... don't see how you got from A --> B. Heard that before, but don't know where it came from. It's not something I've ever heard a Calvinist teach, nor is it a good and necessary logical inference that there is no need for conviction if God predestined that it would happen.

THERE WAS REALLY NO NEED FOR THE ATONEMENT YOUR PREDESTINED.

Considering one of the five points of classical Calvinistm is explicitly about a definate atonement, I think we can discount this statement.

YOUR PART OF THE GOOD OL BOYS CLUB PREDESTINED ELECTED SELECTED

You completely misunderstand how a Calvinist believes himself to be elected -- believing it to be a matter for pride rather than a matter for quiet astonishment. Smile when you say "PREDESTINED ELECTED SELECTED."

NO NEED TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN WEATHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT.

Dude, you're just wrong. And you can't spell either.

"SHOUTING" doesn't make your post more logical; it only makes it harder to read.

[drstevej]

***Can you give it a rest, at least while drstevej's family is going through such turmoil?***

CTD, I appreciate your concern about my family, I really do, but I can't see why this thread should not be posted or how in any way it effects my family situation.

Blessings, drstevej

[HarleyD]

You're right. These arguments go round and round and round. I can understand people disagreeing with points of the article in question or even the theology but to bring up the same tiring arguments they might as well just list them in one location and link us there.

Perhaps they should begin with the list you've started. I would also recommend this list include that Calvinists:

Believe Hitler was a good thing.

Fail to let man freely choose whether he would like to spend eternity in Heaven or Hell. (Difficult choice???)

Have the adacity to say that God is in control and refuses to give man His sovereignty.

Believe that God is the author of evil.

[Cvengr]

RnMom: If you have repented and believed you are one of the elect. You are not elect because of your choice, but you BELIEVED because you are elect.

DrE: Pretty simple, RnMom. Amazing so many get it backwards and inside out.

From the point of view of man who is receiving salvation, he chooses to exercise a non-meritorious faith in Christ, which then affords the Holy Spirit the opportunity to provide salvation.

It might be the case that from the point of view of the Father, that he had selected or decided before our time (the greek for predestined)who would be His children, but if we take this perspective in judging or discerning our salvation we have made ourselves as the Most High, thereby no longer remaining in His Spirit and out of fellowship with Him.

However, His indwelling us does allow us to understand Christ as the Son of God through whom all our blessings flow, this would be from the Father, and we obediently choose to place faith in Him just as Christ placed faith in the Father. This also allows consistent future sanctification by our remaining obedient to Him and not quenching the filling of the Holy SPirit in our souls, thereby continuing to build up our spirit towards complete sanctification.

[connectthedots]

O.K.

[ponyespresso]

For own study

pony