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No-Fault Division? Time for mainline churches to consider an amicable divorce?
Christianity Today ^ | Christianity Today

Posted on 07/03/2004 5:42:36 AM PDT by xzins

William Hinson, president of a major renewal organization, dropped a bombshell during May's United Methodist General Conference: "I believe the time has come when we must begin to explore an amicable and just separation that will free us both from our cycle of pain and conflict".

We find in large sections of mainline churches a sub-Christian religion with alternate doctrines of biblical authority, the church, and even salvation.

Most Methodists, left and right, responded with shock, rallied around the flag of unity, and declared their dismay. This is an understandable reaction and shows a good instinct for one's church. But Hinson's idea is one worth considering—and for more than just United Methodists.

Since liberals gained control of key national posts in the 1960s, mainline Protestants have spent increasing amounts of time and money on leftist politics instead of classic evangelism and discipleship. Since the 1970s, we've seen a slow but steady pressure to change each church's traditional sexual ethics—especially in the area of homosexuality.

It was charitable and wise at first to "study the issue," as each denomination did. And did again. And again. Conservatives were convinced that such studies would reveal the lack of support in Scripture and church history for such a move. Liberals believed conservatives would eventually empathize with the plight of homosexuals. Indeed, conservatives have become more sensitized to the nuances of homosexuality, and many liberals have become increasingly aware that the Bible, as such, doesn't justify homoeroticism. No matter: Revisionists have simply drifted toward new theological ground.

Theologian Leander S. Harding says, "The quintessential American Religion is the quest for the true and original self. Finding the true self requires absolute and complete freedom of choice unconstrained by any sources of authority outside the self. … When the self determining self finds 'the real me' salvation is achieved and the ultimate self has achieved contact with the ultimate reality."

Harding notes how perfectly the homosexual agenda in the church fits the pattern. "A person who discovers that he or she is Gay has recovered his or her true self and 'come out. ' "

This exaltation of the self first blossomed in the values-clarification sex education curriculum used by many denominations in the 1970s—in which teenagers' self-chosen value systems became the authority for their sexual ethics. We now see its flowering in the Christian gay culture, in which gays feel they will "wither and die" (as one homoerotic bishop recently put it) if they cannot express their sexuality.

Though this extreme theology is not universal, it is clearly widespread, if only informally. After 40 years of study and dialogue, then, we find in large sections of mainline churches a sub-Christian religion with alternate doctrines of biblical authority, the church, and even salvation.

A proactive separation, involving leadership of both the left and right, would keep anger to a minimum, minimize ugly property disputes, and, in a perverse way, demonstrate to the world that Christians can act civilly toward each other even in the midst of profound disagreements. Then each church can get on with its own version of the faith, and, to paraphrase Gamaliel (Acts 5), see if one or both will prosper.

We too quickly forget that Jesus' prayer for unity in John 17 is accompanied by this prayer, "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." Genuine church unity, according to Jesus, is grounded in truth. All that remains in the mainline is a sentimental unity. It may be best to face that reality and move on. It is, in the tradition of the mainline, at least an idea worth dialogue and study.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: church; division; homosexuality; mainline; protestant; scripture; separation; split
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1 posted on 07/03/2004 5:42:36 AM PDT by xzins
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To: All
Theologian Leander S. Harding says, "The quintessential American Religion is the quest for the true and original self. Finding the true self requires absolute and complete freedom of choice unconstrained by any sources of authority outside the self. … When the self determining self finds 'the real me' salvation is achieved and the ultimate self has achieved contact with the ultimate reality."

Human theology leads to this perversity.

Scripture leads to truth and unity among believers.

2 posted on 07/03/2004 5:43:59 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins
We now see its flowering in the Christian gay culture, in which gays feel they will "wither and die" (as one homoerotic bishop recently put it) if they cannot express their sexuality.

Looks as though the homoerotic bishop and others are having a tough time with Scripture comprehension.
3 posted on 07/03/2004 6:17:44 AM PDT by GirlShortstop ( O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this...)
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To: GirlShortstop

"We now see its flowering in the Christian gay culture, in which gays feel they will "wither and die" (as one homoerotic bishop recently put it) if they cannot express their sexuality."

OOOOooooo, if we don't get church-approved homo humpty-hump, we'll just *die*.


4 posted on 07/04/2004 4:38:24 AM PDT by dsc
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To: xzins
It seems the division between the liberal wing and conservative (traditional theology) wing of each of the mainline churches is greater than the divisions between the mainline churches. I can imagine traditionalists banding together in one organization, and the liberals of the various churches banding together in their own organization.

Clearly, traditional lines of authority have fallen to pieces; no church (except perhaps the Roman Catholic Church) has an intact, functioning mechanism for preserving traditional beliefs and teachings. Homosexuality is a touchstone issue (conservatives understand what liberals do not: encouraging homosexuality is the opposite of being compassionate). But deeper issues divide the churches -- the authority of the Scriptures and the reality of the Resurrection.

5 posted on 07/04/2004 7:03:14 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: megatherium

Excellent, thoughtful post.


6 posted on 07/04/2004 9:56:01 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: megatherium

This article is exactly correct-- every mainline Protestant denomination finds itself enmeshed in the same strife, and that is not what the church is supposed to be about. It is indeed time to lovingly and gracefully go our separate ways. To the extent that we allow the politics of the world to drive our churches, we have then ceased to follow Christ. Following Christ means that we must sometimes recognize that He "came not to bring peace, but a sword." The time for that division is here.

Of course I don't expect that by this we will be left alone by the world to worship and follow Him, but still, the peace amongst believers will be worth it. And, over time, God's truth will be proven and justified in the world.


7 posted on 07/04/2004 11:56:34 AM PDT by walden
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To: xzins

Religious truth is more important than corporate unity.


8 posted on 07/04/2004 4:28:43 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam

I agree with that.

There is a struggle that must be waged because corporate unity IS important. However, there can be no real Christian Unity apart from Christian Truth.

When it gets to the point that truth must be sacrificed to maintain unity, then it is time for that body to split.


9 posted on 07/04/2004 4:33:40 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins

I don't think its a good idea. Once the apostates take over 1/2 of the church property, they will infiltrate the ranks of the conservative churches and then seek to steal the other half as well. These apostates are picking off the lukewarm churches one at a time and creating new lukewarm churches while chasing away conservatives and true believers.

If these denominations are to survive, they have to fight to cleanse the whole church of the apostates, not surrender half the property to them. Compromise is the earmark of the Laodedean Church.


10 posted on 07/04/2004 4:37:11 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; aristeides; lady lawyer; connectthedots; winstonchurchill

Interesting you say that conservatives should not quit the fight but should, instead, fight for control of the denomination. Interesting that you cite Laodicea.

In none of the 7 churches is there an instruction to quit. Rather, there is an instruction to overcome. I like your thinking.

The legal question in 21st Century America is how to contest legal ownership with an heretic group which has thoroughly infiltrated the hierarchy and passes itself off as the denominational heirs of traditions and properties. We people look at the denomination's confession of faith or articles of religion, at the denomination's history and traditions, and even at the denomination's founders, and we are certain that we are the true heirs of that denomination.

How does one convince a court of law of that truth?

If we could answer that question, we could cast out the heretics.


11 posted on 07/04/2004 5:08:42 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins

I think your hope lies with the youth. If you can get a serious outreach to the youth (high school and college) and get them on fire for the Lord and bringing in new Christians, then you stand a decent chance of taking back the denominations. The fact that some denominations are being taken over by apostates is a clear indication that there is not enough new growth at the grass roots.

In my experience young Christians are full of zeal and are for the most part even less tolerant of blatant sin than your average 40 year old. Young Christians are less likely to put up with apostacy than old died in the wool demoninationalists who, like sheepish democrats, are Methodists and Episcopalians for no other reason than that their parents were Methodists and Episcopalians.

You need to fill the pews with former atheists and former cultists and repentant sinners. Then and only then will these denominations have the votes necessary to throw out the apostates and take back the church for Christ.

So, my solution is outreach. Get out of the building and hit the streets. "Compel them to come in."


12 posted on 07/04/2004 5:28:19 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

In principle, I agree with you that victory is available by outgrowing a non-reproducing minority.

Our polity,however, makes change very slow and the infidels can remain in power and practice nepotism for years and years more.

Many of the newly won to Christ, will not have that patience.

It would ALSO be good to have a legal strategy.


13 posted on 07/04/2004 5:56:33 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins
In none of the 7 churches is there an instruction to quit.

That's because it was the only game in town -- its not like there was a choice of denominations, or anything.

Now, if the Presbyterians go apostate, the Baptists are down the road. If the Methodists go apostate, there's a servicable Wesleyan church not far away.

It's a different world now than then.

14 posted on 07/04/2004 5:57:54 PM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: jude24

One shouldn't just give up because of tares in the wheat. That certainly isn't the stance of Jesus' parable on the same subject.

Is there a time when I WOULD leave....absolutely. And I'd call it the Reformed Methodist or something like that.

BUT...someone give us a legal strategy for a quick seizure of leadership OR understand that the current polity will make any change slow OR encourage everyone immediately to leave their churches whenever the church makes bad decisions.


15 posted on 07/04/2004 6:01:35 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins; jude24
Our polity,however, makes change very slow and the infidels can remain in power and practice nepotism for years and years more.

Perhaps its time to play the Sevetus card. :-)

16 posted on 07/04/2004 6:39:40 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; jude24; opus86; Revelation 911; Corin Stormhands; connectthedots; The Grammarian
Perhaps its time to play the Sevetus card. :-)

Since much of our hierarchy is rumored to be witches (wiccan)...wouldn't it be appropriate for the "Knights Who Say Neener" and are of the KOETT to recognize that such persons might not need to burn (as did Servetus) but that they just MIGHT FLOAT.

Wood, of course, also floats. :>)

17 posted on 07/04/2004 7:07:51 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins

BEDEVERE:
Tell me. What do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2:
Burn!
VILLAGER #1:
Burn!
CROWD:
Burn! Burn them up! Burn!...
BEDEVERE:
And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1:
More witches!
VILLAGER #3:
Shh!
VILLAGER #2:
Wood!
BEDEVERE:
So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3:
B--... 'cause they're made of... wood?
BEDEVERE:
Good! Heh heh.


18 posted on 07/04/2004 7:14:16 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

To bad Methodists aren't died-in-the-wool immersionists....we could see if they float.

:>)


19 posted on 07/04/2004 7:19:50 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
Perhaps its time to play the Sevetus card. :-)

This is the comment you ping me back for?

20 posted on 07/04/2004 8:35:46 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I'm going on vacation in 26 days...)
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