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Cardinal Ratzinger said, "The minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it."
RenewAmerica.us ^ | July 6, 2004 | Barbara Kralis

Posted on 07/07/2004 3:33:11 PM PDT by Polycarp IV

Cardinal Ratzinger said, "The minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it." He did not say 'could,' or 'may,' but that he "must."



Barbara Kralis

Barbara Kralis
July 6, 2004


Is it possible that after so much scandal and hurt in the Catholic Church, Bishop Wilton Gregory and Cardinal Theodore McCarrick would withhold and distort an important memo written by the head of the Vatican's second most important dicastery of the Roman Curia? [1]

The Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, wrote the memo in English expressly for the USCCB's use as a guideline of the Church's teachings to be used at their 'closed door' plenary Conference in Denver, June 14-19, 2004.

Recently, Catholic World News [2] revealed that the Italian weekly newspaper L'Espresso [3] had exclusively published the confidential Vatican memorandum.

It is important to understand the letter was sent to Cardinal McCarrick and Bishop Gregory. As chair of the USCCB's 'Task Force' committee, McCarrick would be giving the Bishops' his recommendations regarding pro-abortion 'Catholic' politicians.

It would appear that Cardinal Ratzinger wanted the Bishops' Conference to issue a firm statement, sooner rather than later. In contrast, 'Task Force' committee member Bishop Joseph Galante indicated it was "unlikely that the principles would be developed prior to the November 2004 elections." [4]

Cardinal Ratzinger, in his memorandum entitled "Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion — General Principles," said without ambiguity:

"The minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it" [5] when warning and counsel given to the manifest sinner "have not had their effect."

Why then did Cardinal McCarrick and Bishop Gregory mislead the faithful to believe that Cardinal Ratzinger was urging caution against denying the Eucharist? [6]

Learning of the 'leaked' memo, McCarrick said it 'may represent an incomplete and partial leak...it may not accurately reflect the full message I received." He added that at Ratzinger's request he would not release what he had sent him. [7]

Would Cardinal Ratzinger really insist that the memo supporting Church teachings be kept hidden?

Let us look at what we know Cardinal Ratzinger's memo, "Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion — General Principles" did say:

Paragraph #1 — Cardinal Ratzinger cited the Vatican Instruction 'Redemptionis Sacramentum' n.81, 83:

"The practice of indiscriminately presenting oneself to receive Holy Communion, merely as a consequence of being present at Mass, is an abuse that must be corrected."

Paragraph #2 — Cardinal Ratzinger teaches here the grave and clear obligation for Christians to oppose judicial decisions or civil laws that authorize or promote abortion or euthanasia. [8]

Paragraph #3 — Cardinal Ratzinger gives the U.S. bishops clear directives that no other human rights or moral issues have the same serious moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.

Please note that #3 readily refutes those many U.S. bishops who have publicly said they would not deny the Eucharist to pro-abortion legislators because then they would have to deny also those persons who favored war, the death penalty. Ratzinger explained the church does not condemn war and the death penalty, but does condemn abortion and euthanasia.

Ratzinger's statement #3 also refuted those bishops, including the 'Task Force's' head, Pensacola-Tallahassee, FL Bishop John Ricard, who questioned the requirement to withhold the Eucharist from anybody. Bishop Ricard reasoned (incorrectly) that the Bishops would have to consider as grave manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners those politicians who defy church policy "on the role of marriage and family, on the rights of parents to choose the best education for their children, the priority for the poor, and welcome for immigrants." [9]

Paragraph #4 — The Cardinal teaches that the priest may find an individual's judgment about his own worthiness to receive the Eucharist to be in grave error and the priest must deny him Holy Communion, according to c.915.

Paragraph #5 — Here is the Church's teaching regarding the pastor's obligation to warn the manifest sinner of his grave condition, to counsel him of the Church's teachings, and informing the sinner not to present himself for Communion until he ends the objective situation of sin and that he will be denied the Eucharist.

Paragraph # 6 — Cardinal Ratzinger's memorandum instructs that the bishops, priests and deacons, as 'ministers of Holy Communion' [10] must deny the Eucharist, as the Code of Canon Law c.915 directs, to persons who have obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin. [11]

This #6 answers the question of Cardinal Francis George, [12] who, at the November 2003 bishops' Conference, asked if bishops have the right to deny anyone the Eucharist. Cd. George asked the 'Task Force' to clarify under canon law what ability a bishop has to deny manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners the Eucharist. [13]

Is Cardinal George and most of the Conference of Bishops ignorant on the understanding of Canon Law c.915?

It contains only one sentence, which is easily understood by countless others in the Church.

In a 'Nota bene,' [14] Cardinal Ratzinger's memorandum warns the bishops against allowing any Catholic to deliberately vote for candidates who were pro-abortion and/or pro-euthanasia.

Now we shall look at what Cardinal McCarrick presented to the bishops in his 'Task Force' interim report. McCarrick said:

"Vatican officials offered...principles and advised caution and pastoral prudence in the use of sanctions.

"The battles for human life and dignity and for the weak and vulnerable should be fought not at the Communion rail, but in the public square." [15]

McCarrick warned the bishops of "serious unintended consequences" in using Communion as a weapon.

Even Vatican correspondent Sandro Magister reported that McCarrick's words to the conference of bishops were suspicious:

"McCarrick also told the assembly that he had had from the Holy See professions of their trust in the responsibility of the American bishops: thus they may judge whether the refusal of communion is a 'pastorally wise and prudent' decision. However, there is no trace of any such professions in Ratzinger's memorandum. In reading the two notes in parallel — the note of the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and that of the bishops — the impression is one of a clear divergence." [16]

After McCarrick presented his report to the bishops in Denver, a controversial Statement, "Catholics in Political Life," was then adopted by a vote of 183-6.

The 'Statement' was negligent and left the impression that one of the options of a bishop is to permit or 'admit' a manifest sinner to Holy Communion.

The directives from Cardinal Ratzinger should have been incorporated into the 'Statement.'

Will the USCCB now reissue a faithful 'Statement' to replace the lacking, confusing one they issued in Denver?

Why would the bishops issue a 'Statement' that is in direct opposition to Church teachings, Canon Law and Cardinal Ratzinger directives?

Were all of the bishops informed of Ratzinger's clear supportive directive citing why the Bishops must deny manifest, obstinate, persistent persons in grave sin?

Did the Vatican purposely release the memorandum to the Vatican correspondent Sandro Magister after realizing the Conference of U.S. Bishops voted against a clear Vatican recommendation to deny the Eucharist?

You may remember that in April, Cardinal Arinze, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of Sacraments issued at the Pope's request an Eucharistic instruction, "Redemptionis Sacramentum.' He warned that manifest persons who are 'unambiguously pro-abortion" must be refused Communion.

Cardinal McCarrick within hours of the released instruction contradicted Arinze's and the Pope's teaching, saying, "I have not gotten to the stage where I'm comfortable denying the Eucharist." [17]

Shortly afterwards, we remember the poignant ad by American Life League, asking Cardinal McCarrick if he was "comfortable now?"

In a show of hostility against Church law, after the Denver Bishops' meeting, Los Angeles Cardinal Mahony made it clear in a written statement to the media that he would not refuse anyone Holy Communion:

"The Archdiocese will continue to follow church teaching, which places the duty on each Catholic to examine their consciences as to their worthiness to receive Holy Communion. That is not the role of the person distributing the Body and Blood of Christ." [18]

Does Mahony's statement indicate he is in schism from Rome?

It must be pointed out that Cardinal Mahony's use of the word 'sanctions' is inappropriately applied to canon law c.915.

Canon 915 is neither a penal law, nor a punishment of any kind, nor is it a law of excommunication or interdict. Rather, c.915 and the conditions contained therein are matters of sacramental discipline, that is, an important regulation concerning the worthy reception of the Holy Eucharist.

This misuse of terminology to c.915 is no small matter.

Other bishops in recent weeks have used the same obfuscation. Many have said they do not want the Eucharist to be used as a public punishment.

Especially interesting is that Archbishop Raymond Burke, Juris Canonis Doctor, [19] has, with apostolic daring, corrected the bishops and the media on the ill-usage of the words 'sanctions' and 'punishment' several times in relation to c.915. [20]

One wonders if this frequent public misusage of terminology by some bishops against c.915 is to beget a false misunderstanding and public opposition toward the rightful, legal protection of the Eucharist from sacrilege.

To ad to the confusion, during the months of April, May and June, before the Denver meeting, several widely diverse reports were heard from different bishops returning from their 'ad limina' meetings with the Holy Father.

Some bishops returned saying that Cardinal Ratzinger was advising them they must deny the Eucharist. Other bishops returned saying Ratzinger advised they should be very cautious about denying anyone the Eucharist.

Regarding one bishop's 'ad limina' visit, it's important to note that Cardinal Ratzinger's memo is in complete contradiction with the account given by Gallup, N.M. Bishop Donald E. Pelotte.

Catholic News Service (CNS), a division of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, reported that Bishop Pelotte met with Cardinal Ratzinger during his 'ad limina' visit in Rome on June 2, 2004. Pelotte said Ratzinger had discouraged him, as well as a group of 15 Western U.S. bishops, from denying anyone the Eucharist. [21]

CNS wrote "the Cardinal left him with the impression that denying Communion was not usually the appropriate action." [22]

Fac me cocleario vomere!

Bishop Pelotte explained to CNS that some Catholics are upset at some of the bishops' statements, seeing them as too partisan. "What I tell Catholics," Pelotte said, "is to look at the candidate, at all his positions, and then vote your conscience." [23]

Bishop Pelotte failed to make clear to these folks an important 'sine qua non.' Only a well-informed conscience, one that is in agreement with all Magisterial teachings, is a conscience that one can safely follow. Such a conscience would not have to struggle with which candidate to vote for.

The U.S. bishop's Catholic News Service is sometimes perceived as being unreliable and biased in their reporting. CNS was the only news service to report Pelotte's personal interpretation, now clearly in conflict with Ratzinger's actual memo. [24]

Why is the CNS showing bias against Archbishop Burke and Bishop Bruskewitz, the only two prelates who have diocesan notifications in place, saying that they would deny the Eucharist?

Another news service reporting on the sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist was Catholic World News (CWN); an independently owned lay Catholic apostolate. [25]

Conversly in content, CWN reported on June 17, 2004 that another U.S. bishop indicated in April that Cardinal Ratzinger actually encouraged the U.S. bishops to be "more attentive to this question."

CWN also reported that Vatican sources confirm that Cardinal Ratzinger was pleased with the public pronouncements of the more orthodox U.S. bishops who courageously have state they would deny the Eucharist. [26]

A note of clarification; every bishop must be a doctor of theology or canon law, or at least a licentiate. For instance, Cardinal George's designation of S.T.D. is 'Doctor of Sacred Theology.' A doctor is one who has attained the highest academic degree in a given field. The term 'doctor' is derived from the Latin 'docere, meaning to teach.

With this understanding, is it not reasonable to say that each bishop is highly educated and well versed in Church teachings?

Why, then, does so much confusion and misinterpretation reign among some bishops in the U.S. Conference? Are some bishops faithful and others not faithful?

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said: "Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops like bishops and your religious act like religious." [27]

"Corruptio optimi, pessima." ("The corruption of the best is the worst of all.")



NOTES:

  1. The Roman Curia is the ensemble of the discasteries and bodies that assist the Pope in the exercise of his supreme pastoral office for the good and in the service of the Church throughout the world. The Secretariate of State is the most important part of the curia. Second would be the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, prefect Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Other Congregations follow these. Finally, there are Pontifical Councils and Pontifical Commissions. (www.catholic-pages.com/vatican/curia.asp)

  2. Catholic World News, 7/3/04, "US bishops rejected Ratzinger's advice."

  3. www.Chiesa (L'Espresso), 7/3/04, "The Kerry Affair: What Ratzinger Wanted from the American Bishops," by Sandro Magister.

  4. National Catholic Reporter, 11/21/03, "Bishops to address politicians who reject church teaching," by Joe Feuerherd.

  5. Cf. Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts Declaration 'Holy Communion and Divorced, Civilly Remarried Catholics," nos. 3-4, 6/00.

  6. Catholic News Service, 6/23/04, "Task force on politics: Battle in public square, not at Communion, " by Jerry Filteau.

  7. Catholic News Service, 7/6/04, "Cardinal McCarrick says leaded Ratzinger memo is not whole story," by Jerry Filteau.

  8. Pope John Paul II, Encyclical Letter 'Evangelium vitae' n.73, 74.

  9. National Catholic Reporter, 11/21/03, "Bishops to address politicians who reject church teaching," by Joe Feuerherd.

  10. Congregation for the Divine Worship, Cd. Arinze, 4/23/04, "The only minister who can confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist 'in persona Christi' is a validly ordained Priest. Hence, the name 'minister of the Eucharist' belongs properly to the Priest alone. Moreover, also by reason of their sacred Ordination, the ordinary 'ministers of Holy Communion' are the Bishop, the Priest and the Deacon," taken from 'Redemptionis Sacramentum,' n.154.

  11. Code of Canon Law, c.915: "Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to Holy Communion."

  12. Every bishop must be a doctor of theology or canon law, or at least a licentiate. For instance, Cardinal George's designation of S.T.D. is 'Sacræ Theologiæ Doctor' or in English, 'Doctor of Sacred Theology.' A doctor is one who has attained the highest academic degree in a given field. The term 'doctor' is derived from the Latin 'docere, meaning to teach.

  13. National Catholic Reporter, 11/21/03, "Bishops to address politicians who reject church teaching," by Joe Feuerherd.

  14. 'Nota bene' in English means 'mark well.'

  15. Catholic News Service, 6/23/04, "Task Force on Politics: Battle in public square not a Communion," by Jerry Filteau

  16. L-espresso (Rome) newspaper, 7/3/04, "The Kerry Affair: What Ratzinger Wanted from the American Bishops," by Sandro Magister.

  17. USA Today Newspaper, 5/20/04, "House group warns church about denying Communion," Associated Press.

  18. DenverPost.com, 6/19/04, "Local bishops given final say on tying rite to abortion stance," by Eric Gorski.

  19. The highest degree of education in Canon Law is the J.C.D. (Juris Canonis doctor, Doctor of Canon Law), which would apply to Archbishop Raymond Burke.

  20. Diocese of La Crosse website, "Questions and Answers." Also, America weekly, 6/21/04, "Catholic politicians and bishops," by Most Rev. Raymond L. Burke, Archbishop of St. Louis, Mo.

  21. Catholic News Service, a division of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, reported on 6/3/04, "Vatican wants to meet with U.S. Task force on Catholic politicians, " by John Thavis.

  22. Ibid

  23. Ibid

  24. Ibid

  25. Philip Lawler in l996 started Catholic World News, the first Catholic news service on the Internet. Since l993, he is also editor of the esteemed 'Catholic World Report' an international monthly news magazine.

  26. Catholic World News.com, 6/17/04, "Cardinal Ratzinger joins U.S. Bishops' debate."

  27. Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, 6/72, address to the Knights of Columbus, www.rcf.org/Old_web/Press/AMDG/1998aprilframe01.htm


Barbara Kralis, the article's author, writes for various Christian and conservative publications. She is a regular columnist at RenewAmerica.us, Catholic Online.com, The Wanderer newspaper, New Oxford Review Magazine, Washington Dispatch, MichNews, Catholic Citizens of Illinois, Phil Brennan's WOW, ChronWatch, etc. Her first journalism position was with Boston Herald Traveler, 1964. Barbara published/edited 'Semper Fidelis' Catholic print newsletter. She and her husband, Mitch, live in the great State of Texas, and co-direct the Jesus Through Mary Catholic Foundation. She can be reached at: Avemaria@earthlink.net.

© Copyright 2004 by Barbara Kralis
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kralis/040706



The views expressed by RenewAmerica columnists are their own and do not necessarily reflect the position of RenewAmerica or its affiliates.



TOPICS: Activism; Catholic
KEYWORDS: cardinalmccarrick; cardinalratzinger; cary; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; eucharist; eucharisticminister; holycommuion; holycommunion; mccarrick; pope; ratzinger; vatican
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1 posted on 07/07/2004 3:33:13 PM PDT by Polycarp IV
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To: .45MAN; AAABEST; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; annalex; Annie03; Antoninus; ...

EXCELLENT summary article on this subject!


2 posted on 07/07/2004 3:40:26 PM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic - -without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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To: Polycarp IV; Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; ...

Ping


3 posted on 07/07/2004 3:56:32 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Polycarp IV

O, if only it would be enforced this way!


4 posted on 07/07/2004 4:01:12 PM PDT by Petronski (Dual Johns? Twice the Crap)
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To: Polycarp IV; NYer; eastsider; Aquinasfan; Desdemona; american colleen; Siobhan; livius; maryz; ...
"The minister of Holy Communion MUST refuse to distribute it" [5] when warning and counsel given to the manifest sinner "have not had their effect."

The operative word there is "must." How could that be ambiguous? How could McCarrick come up with his waffling account of this? Did he miss the classes on grammar at Fordham? Did they teach what "imperative mood" means?

5 posted on 07/07/2004 4:12:02 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

**Did they teach what "imperative mood" means?**

LOL!

Or is it one of those times when HIS interpretation is one of YOPIOStatement?


6 posted on 07/07/2004 4:29:20 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
How do men who are cognitively unqualified to teach Latin One, Freshman English, or Introductory Logic manage to end up as cardinals and bishops of the church?

Is this how the Lavender Mafia works?

7 posted on 07/07/2004 4:40:48 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Polycarp IV; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ..
Excellent post!

Barbara Kralis has performed a bloodless dissection of the facts. McCarrick must be writhing in his chair! When is the last time the media had so boldly delved into the workings of church memorandum, and extracted the salient facts? Kudos to Barbara Kralis, for scoring decisevely in her reporting on this topic.

8 posted on 07/07/2004 4:54:12 PM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The operative word there is "must." How could that be ambiguous?

You must ICELize it...then it will read "may."

9 posted on 07/07/2004 5:01:28 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The peter principle.
10 posted on 07/07/2004 5:03:15 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Polycarp IV

"The question for us is not simply whether denial of Communion is possible, but whether it is pastorally wise and prudent," - Cardinal McCarrick

Rev 3:16
But because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.

11 posted on 07/07/2004 5:19:42 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: AAABEST

Clever. A red suit, pitchfork, horns, and a tail might be more in sync with the McCarrick's style.


12 posted on 07/07/2004 5:26:58 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: AAABEST

Excellent portrayal!


13 posted on 07/07/2004 5:34:03 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


14 posted on 07/07/2004 5:35:50 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

And so this means the priest as well as the extraordinary minister?


16 posted on 07/07/2004 5:42:04 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod ('I went to Vietnam, yada yada yada, I want to be President...")
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To: BlessedBeGod; sinkspur

**And so this means the priest as well as the extraordinary minister?**

That's the way it reads, but I betcha we still need a written directive from the Bishop.


17 posted on 07/07/2004 5:51:20 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation; BlessedBeGod
That's the way it reads, but I betcha we still need a written directive from the Bishop.

You should have one. I can only say what will happen in my parish, and that is that nobody will be refused unless the pastor directs them to refuse, and nobody, but nobody, will make that decision on their own.

18 posted on 07/07/2004 5:54:26 PM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: seamole; Polycarp IV; NYer; Desdemona; Aquinasfan; maryz; Siobhan; eastsider; ninenot; RobbyS; ...
Kerry is so much against Catholic teaching...why does he even bother to go to Mass?
19 posted on 07/07/2004 5:55:27 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Kerry is so much against Catholic teaching...why does he even bother to go to Mass?

For the photo op.

20 posted on 07/07/2004 6:08:10 PM PDT by NeoCaveman (vote Democrat, it beats working for a living)
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To: dubyaismypresident
And the votes.

All those dumb liberals enslaved to the Dems. And Lucifer.

21 posted on 07/07/2004 6:11:23 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Kerry is so much against Catholic teaching...why does he even bother to go to Mass?

He does so because Amchurch prelates(e.g. McCarrick, O'Malley...) and laymen can than justify to themselves a reason to vote for him; just like they've always kept the Kennedys in office.

Same reason Kerry worshipped at and received "communion" in an AME church: to get their votes also. I believe that latter sacrilege occurred on Palm Sunday of this year.

22 posted on 07/07/2004 6:22:50 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Ditto. As I said about the Kennedy's Trojan Horse on another thread:

The Kennedys seem to have played a pivotal role in diminishing Catholicism in exchange for mere temporal power and vacuous stylishness (acceptance by liberal elites). Silly.

Imagine trading Heaven for looking cool at a Massachusetts beach vacation and being accepted by other annoying, liberal Harvard people. You get the idea. It's that dumb. Sad. Pathetic. Evil is banal.

23 posted on 07/07/2004 6:28:18 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Land of the Irish

I wouldn't want to single out the Irish because other groups are guilty of this as well (Cuomo comes to mind),
but it seems like there is a very specific strain of Irish Catholics from the American urban experience who are so obsessed with social status and making it into the "elite" of modern American culture that they are willing to sell their souls to Satan.


24 posted on 07/07/2004 6:30:21 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Land of the Irish
And Kerry's NOT really Irish, of course.
25 posted on 07/07/2004 6:31:03 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Land of the Irish

Speaking of the banality of evil, Joe Kennedy essentially sold his soul in order to be an errand boy for FDR and to be accepted by Harvard people. Good grief!


26 posted on 07/07/2004 6:34:25 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The minister of Holy Communion MUST refuse to distribute it" [5] when warning and counsel given to the manifest sinner "have not had their effect."

Maybe McCarrick thought the operative words were "warning and counsel." Are pro-aborts supposed to be warned personally or is it enough that Church teaching regarding abortion is generally known?

27 posted on 07/07/2004 6:48:06 PM PDT by perform_to_strangers
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To: B Knotts

Wrong, B.

ICEL-ization of "must" becomes:

"woulda, coulda, shoulda. (Pick one)"


28 posted on 07/07/2004 6:51:12 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: sinkspur

Based on your comment, then the Code's provisions about giving the Sacrament to the unworthy come into play, eh?


29 posted on 07/07/2004 6:52:44 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: perform_to_strangers; Land of the Irish; narses; AAABEST
The decision on this should not have devolved to entrusting one man (McCarrick). If it was going to be one man they should have chosen Chaput, Burke, or Bruskewitz. Also, the Pope himself should speak on this now. Directly. In writing. In bold print.

It's not just the Kerry issue. You can't have adult Catholics in positions of authority and influence wandering around misrepresenting and distorting Catholic teachings on grave matter with apparent impunity. Cuomo did this. The Kennedys have done it for years. And now BOTH Kerry and McCarrick and many other Catholic bishops and laity are joining in. It HAS to stop.

The Vatican should issue a clear statement signed by every official member of the hierarchy in Rome.

30 posted on 07/07/2004 6:53:46 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

If you are referring to Joe Kennedy's business of running liquor during Prohibition as 'selling his soul,' we should have a long talk.

Although he was a criminal for that, it's my opinion that the UltimaRatio argument has validity in this case: "the greater good."

Whatever ELSE he did might have been 'selling his soul.'


31 posted on 07/07/2004 6:55:40 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot
Based on your comment, then the Code's provisions about giving the Sacrament to the unworthy come into play, eh?

Yes. But any determination to deny will be made by the pastor or bishop, and not a deacon or lay minister.

32 posted on 07/07/2004 6:56:15 PM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: ninenot

I am definitely NOT referring to anything having to do with running beer trucks.


33 posted on 07/07/2004 6:56:53 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: perform_to_strangers

I think the Canon Law requires either a face-to-face conversation about it or a clearly-worded letter.

Bp Burke, while in LaCrosse, sent a letter to three CINO Dimowits, first class mail, explaining their problem.


34 posted on 07/07/2004 6:57:16 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: All

McCarrick is a coward and a heretic (IMHO) desperately searching for a justification to keep supporting pro-death socialists.


35 posted on 07/07/2004 7:15:51 PM PDT by kjvail (Light 'em up George!!!!)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The Vatican should issue a clear statement signed by every official member of the hierarchy in Rome.

The Holy Father stated as much in Ecclesia de Eucharistia:

Along these same lines, the Catechism of the Catholic Church rightly stipulates that “anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion”. I therefore desire to reaffirm that in the Church there remains in force, now and in the future, the rule by which the Council of Trent (*) gave concrete expression to the Apostle Paul's stern warning when it affirmed that, in order to receive the Eucharist in a worthy manner, “one must first confess one's sins, when one is aware of mortal sin”.

The judgment of one's state of grace obviously belongs only to the person involved, since it is a question of examining one's conscience. However, in cases of outward conduct which is seriously, clearly and steadfastly contrary to the moral norm, the Church, in her pastoral concern for the good order of the community and out of respect for the sacrament, cannot fail to feel directly involved. The Code of Canon Law refers to this situation of a manifest lack of proper moral disposition when it states that those who “obstinately persist in manifest grave sin” are not to be admitted to Eucharistic communion.

(*)Council of Trent, Session XIII, Canon 11. If anyone says that faith alone is a sufficient preparation for receiving the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist, let him be anathema. And lest so great a sacrament be received unworthily and hence unto death and condemnation, this holy council ordains and declares that sacramental confession, when a confessor can be had, must necessarily be made beforehand by those whose conscience is burdened with mortal sin, however contrite they may consider themselves. Moreover, if anyone shall presume to teach, preach or obstinately assert, or in public disputation defend the contrary, he shall be excommunicated.

36 posted on 07/07/2004 7:27:44 PM PDT by lrslattery (Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam - http://slatts.blogspot.com)
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To: ninenot

No, his real screwing of the people was when he manipulated the stock market and Roosevelt thought he was so good at it he gave Kennedy the job as the first chairman of the SEC.


37 posted on 07/07/2004 9:47:54 PM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: seamole; ninenot
I'm tempted to LOL, but it's all rather too sad to laugh about, isn't it?

Still, I love the bracketed, omittable part! :-)

38 posted on 07/07/2004 9:50:39 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Polycarp IV

bump, and thanks.


39 posted on 07/07/2004 10:11:23 PM PDT by Romulus ("For the anger of man worketh not the justice of God.")
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Imagine trading Heaven for looking cool at a Massachusetts beach vacation and being accepted by other annoying, liberal Harvard people.

This does not make one look cool.

40 posted on 07/07/2004 11:03:53 PM PDT by Desdemona ("He throws like a girl." - my mom's observation of John Kerry)
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To: sinkspur

What is a "lay minister"?

If you have to deny, THEN DO IT!

In the meantime, souls are lost/thrown away based on the actions of those that have the "permission" to say "NO"


41 posted on 07/07/2004 11:05:31 PM PDT by Tuco Ramirez (Ideas have consequences.)
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To: Polycarp IV

Thanks for posting this.....


42 posted on 07/08/2004 12:25:11 AM PDT by .45MAN ("Vote for Life, Vote for Freedom ,Vote for Bush")
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To: dansangel

ping


43 posted on 07/08/2004 12:25:40 AM PDT by .45MAN ("Vote for Life, Vote for Freedom ,Vote for Bush")
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To: lrslattery
Thanks for posting that. Reading these threads is enough to make one either laugh or cry,depending on one's mood at the onset. Intelligent people from either end of the Catholic spectrum are so caught up in their own agendas they fail to see what is right there or they translate it to mean other than what it says.

It has been pretty common knowledge for a good long time that one sure way to destroy the Church is to corrupt the clergy and diminish the Pope to no more than a figurehead if that.

The question of Kerry and communion and the response of some Freepers on both ends,make it clear that infiltrators are in our midst,on these very threads.Those who have been unable to recognize that the Pope,and Cardinals Arinze,Hoyos,Neves, and Ratzinger have all said the same thing (reiterating Church teaching,dogma and doctrine)in various documents over the past 25 years and especially clearly the last few months simply do not want the Catholic Church to exist as a force in the world.

44 posted on 07/08/2004 12:35:17 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: Tuco Ramirez
In the meantime, souls are lost/thrown away based on the actions of those that have the "permission" to say "NO"

Sorry, Tuco. We're not going to give lay ministers the authority to decide, on their own, who receives and who doesn't.

45 posted on 07/08/2004 4:00:14 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: sinkspur; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...
Sinkspur says: "We're not going to give lay ministers the authority to decide, on their own, who receives and who doesn't."

What is a "LAY MINISTER"?

46 posted on 07/08/2004 4:08:38 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: narses
Eucharistic Minister, narses.

Lay ministers, as opposed to ordained ministers.

47 posted on 07/08/2004 4:12:51 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: sinkspur

They are NOT "lay ministers" deacon, they are laymen performing a function. Extraordinary Eucharistic ministers are clearly and specifically NOT "lay ministers". To use that misleading protestant title is wrong.


48 posted on 07/08/2004 4:32:10 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: narses
A fresh new day, and you're already growling like an old bear.

Do you gripe in your sleep?

49 posted on 07/08/2004 4:34:43 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: Polycarp IV
Excellent article.

The 'Statement' was negligent and left the impression that one of the options of a bishop is to permit or 'admit' a manifest sinner to Holy Communion.

It sure does. And it leads me to question McCarrick's motivations. The bishops' statement is a disaster.

50 posted on 07/08/2004 4:42:00 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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