Posted on 07/08/2004 11:21:45 PM PDT by A2J
We are in the process of planning a new church plant in the eastern Tennesse/western North Carolina area in the near future.
Our target group will be young families with children and youth (i.e., teens), as well as the 18 - 35 age group, known as the "emerging church."
If you are already familiar with the emerging church generation, then you know that they are basically resistant to the status quo of what has wrongly been called "church" (i.e., heirarchial structure organizations, non-relational, etc.) and instead are looking for real, authentic truth and relationships.
What I am asking of you are ideas for a name that will appeal to that younger crowd. We really don't want something with the word "church" in it but rather more of a description of what the Christian life is all about. For example, we are currently looking at descriptive names such as "The Quest" and "The Journey," both signifying that our life is a quest or journey of faith that will ultimately end in heaven. Our focus will be on encouraging an environment where life-long relationships can be created that will help each of us on our personal and corporate walk of faith.
Also, if you could include some ideas for a slogan as well, that would be a great help.
Thanks for all of your help. I have a great deal of respect for the FR crowd and look forward to seeing God's creativity at work.
******"when Constatine became a "christian" and "christians" began meeting in buildings, safe from the persecution that caused it to explode in growth the previous 300 years."******
What a wild generalization! Tradition is a bad word nowadays, as well as dignity, soberness, and maybe a little fear of God. What we have now in too many 'churches' is double-espresso in 'worship'. I tire of it all.
I've heard the Constantine explanation over and over again, as to the church going 'off the rails' and it doesn't really expain anything.
I for one believe God used Constantine.
Gotterdammerung
A spiritual center is a phrase that will tell them about it without saying church. Perhaps mention spiritual learning.
First, I strongly commend you for wanting to reach out to this new generation.
But I have to quickly add that your reading of history is exceedingly arrogant (not to mention wrong).
1. What makes you think buildings stop persecution?
2. "Irrelevant" churches don't generate present day persecution and the workd is full of it today. More believers were martyred in the 20th century than in all of the early church.
3. The irrelevant churches of the past 1700 years just evangelized the world. When you have done better, THEN you can criticize.
4. As to pastors and bishops (both biblical concepts), what authority do you have to junk the Word of God and re-organize? Hierarchy is God's idea. Read the pastoral epistles. Read the epistles of Ignatius.
5. If the church ceased being an organism, it failed, and Jesus promise with it (Matt 16;18). And, you think that *you* can change that?
Newberger
Thank you and please.
Tradition, as in the edicts and creation of men, is exactly what killed Jesus Christ. He stood as a direct threat to the control and manmande traditions of men. Believe me, I am not comparing myself to Christ, but it's amazing how defensive people who hold to the traditions of men become when something "new" (although it's really not) threatens their position or their status quo.
I've heard the Constantine explanation over and over again, as to the church going 'off the rails' and it doesn't really expain anything.
I for one believe God used Constantine.
I believe Constantine was a well-meaning individual who sought to force Christianity upon the citizens of his rule. Constantine's efforts on behalf of Christianity made it fashionable and easy to become a Christian, although biblical discipleship requires much more than most of us are willing to give today (and I'm not talking about money!).
Christianity is completely relational and best thrives when open dialogue and visible respect of each other is expressed. However, as we all know, relationships are many times ugly in the making but beautiful in its more mature stages. Relationships are better fostered and strengthened when trials and tribulations are endured, which is why Christianity flourished in the first 300 years of its existence.
Persecution spread Christianity around the known world. Instistutionalization, brought on by Constantine, stopped the spread of the gospel and led to the power struggles of those who deemed themselves in "control" of the flock.
Thanks.
I'm going to respond to my own post, hopefully even before you do.
I used words like "arrogant" but I'm certain that's not your intention. Postmodern, "emerging church" evangelicals are motivated, I'm sure by love and compassion for those who need Christ but they also think that meeting modern cultural "felt needs" is what people really need so that earlier Christians missed the boat.
Please don't be so hasty with your critique. When the present is allowed to trump the past you are in danger because in 30 - 50 years *this* will be the past and cultural trends will have changed.
In my own faith journey, I have found that the oldest churches (I am Orthodox, by conviction not birth) speak directly to the needs for relationships and spiritual integrity that EM Church folks are looking for. EM churches "experiment" with old things like icons and candles, etc but never with any conviction that previous generations had any spiritual reality.
We need to reach 21st century people not with contemporary changing fads but with time tested spiritual paths.
Newberger
The church hasn't grown since Constantine?
Check history
In the fourth century, one had to study for up to three years as a catechumen before being baptized. I don't think that qualifies as "easy".
Do you really believe that Christians in "institutional" churches don't practice serious discipleship? Visit an Orthodox church next year during Great Lent a few times. Or, for that matter, try during Advent.
My whole point is that modern Christians are the ones who have "missed the boat" by creating organized structures of control that have choked and hamstrung the Body of Christ because instead of every believer being encouraged to express his/her gifts and callings (and I'm not referring to serving the facility as ushers or cooks), they have become spectators instead of participators and co-laborers.
Pastors have been most guilty of this because of their need to remain "in charge," forgetting that Christ alone is the Head of His body and is well capable of leading His body where He desires it to go.
It was the first believers who had it all together, not what we think is "church" today.
Please don't be so hasty with your critique. When the present is allowed to trump the past you are in danger because in 30 - 50 years *this* will be the past and cultural trends will have changed.
Didn't Jesus trump the past practices of men by ushering in a present, radically new and different understanding of the kingdom of God? No more is there to be a handful of crusty old men in power, but the realization that every believer is a priest unto the Lord and is given responsibilities to minister as God leads him/her.
I have seen where those who are in more traditional, mainline (code word for "dying") institutions feel threatened by the so-called "emerging church," which (I admit appear strange and of which practices I don't agree with), have a certain bent for the eccentric, more emotional aspects of expressing their faith, but, instead of seeing the new generation as a threat, look at it as an encouraging and promising thing because it will force the Church to look to the past, the ancient past all the way back to the Day of Pentecost for answers and THE method of experiencing church.
In my own faith journey, I have found that the oldest churches (I am Orthodox, by conviction not birth) speak directly to the needs for relationships and spiritual integrity that EM Church folks are looking for. EM churches "experiment" with old things like icons and candles, etc but never with any conviction that previous generations had any spiritual reality.
Whether we like it or not, the new generation of people who are seeking a spiritual home are tired of the old (as in the modern era) because the old resembles the world, with its structures and command organizations in place that does not encourage relationship but ownership by a few elitist men.
As stated in an earlier post, the message of the Cross has never, will never and must never change, but the methods in which to share that message must change with the times. Otherwise, the institutionalized church will continue to be as irrelevant as ever.
We need to reach 21st century people not with contemporary changing fads but with time tested spiritual paths.
Paths that have created more disciples of the denominations from which they come rather than true disciples of Christ?
And what exactly was included in the catechism? I can tell you that when I was in the Catholic Church, the vast majority of what was taught was from a Catholic point of view and from a Catholic Bible. Is that really producing disciples of Christ?
As one who serves in what some may call a "pastoral role", I can tell you that protestants are no different, teaching their own denomination's doctrines and theology and not the Bible.
Do you really believe that Christians in "institutional" churches don't practice serious discipleship? Visit an Orthodox church next year during Great Lent a few times. Or, for that matter, try during Advent.
I am not saying that institutional churches are evil or wicked, but neither do they reflect the true nature of the Church because the church, prior to the third century was totally devoid of heirarchial structures and programs to "keep the sheep" from straying.
What I am saying is that God, in spite of, and not because of, institutionalized churches moves because there are people there. But that was/is not the original design or intent of God for His people to confine themselves within the four walls of a church and have paid "clergy" (a disgusting word) and "laymen" (another horrible term), effectively creating a class system among the Body of Christ.
But because we have been taught, or rather force-fed, the doctrines of men, we believe that "church" today is it, when it is not.
My intention is NOT to argue over whose church is the "right one," because there's only one that is and it's the Church of Jesus Christ, His universal body. Please, let's not argue whether or not we are members of the Body of Christ, as I believe most of us are, but rather help me with my initial request so that, by God's grace, we can reach as many people with the gospel as possible.
Thanks.
So you don't believe in paid clergy? Or not in specifically-educated clergy? I'm really not attacking here, just asking for clarification, but what are your qualifications from being a pastor?
I can't read New Testament Greek, or Hebrew. I don't have years to spend studying Church history and where doctrine came from. I can't spend twenty hours a week studying a passage. My pastor can do all those things, and does, and then explains it to me. If I had to struggle on my own, or only with other people who know as little about the Bible as I do, how would I ever grow?
And again I'm not attacking, I'd like to understand where you're coming from. It seems odd to me.
OK, drop the DaVinci Code and step away slowly.
Actually the early church preached Jesus Christ crucified our hope of glory. As they were sent out to a new town (not a target group) by the direction of the Holy Spirit and preached that all men have fallen short of the glory of God and that by the finished work of the Cross of Christ and through the Son there was only one way for salvation. they were often stoned to death for preaching or thrown into prisons and many other things. Yes the thing they call church today bears no resemblance to the original called out ones from 2000 years ago. I apologize for jumping to conclusions but when you use buzz words it sound like a marketing scheme a come on over and join our group type of deal. There is only one church it is the body of Christ.
I believe that there is nothing wrong with the renumeration for those who have devoted themselves to the ministry of the gospel, although the support should be completely from love offerings and not taught as the tithe, which is NOT a New Testament principle.
Unfortunately, the tithe is taught as a required "payment" in order to support clergy, although it is foreign to the teachings of the early church fathers.
I can't read New Testament Greek, or Hebrew.
You no longer need to. All that is needed are a few reference translations for comparison and perhaps a E.W. Vine's expository dictionary or a Strong's concordance and you're in business.
If anything, we have no excuse any longer for not knowing and studying God's word, which is OUR responsibility.
I don't have years to spend studying Church history and where doctrine came from. I can't spend twenty hours a week studying a passage. My pastor can do all those things, and does, and then explains it to me.
And how do you know whether what your pastor says is correct? Perhaps his training in seminary was tainted and/or slanted to support a particular denominational position (as my training did) and not THE truth. Is that a possibility?
If I had to struggle on my own, or only with other people who know as little about the Bible as I do, how would I ever grow?
The same way the first believers did while hiding in caves avoiding capture: prayer, fellowship and the teaching of the apostles (the original ones, not the flakes we see today).
Careful, I sense a strong welfare mentality in your statement.
Just as there has been a strong emphasis on building a welfare system in our country, which is wrong and unbiblical, so is the system that has existed for centuries among God's people by those who want and need people to be dependent upon them. The saddest thing is how God's people have been lulled into believing that we are not personally responsible for knowing and living His word to the point where we can encourage others in their walk with the Lord.
35 Years Ago Flip Wilson did a Skit...
I think he called "his church"
The Church of What's Happenin' NOW!
I believe you will discover that the writers of the actual Book... The Bible ... where not really interested in
conforming to the world in order to gain physical "numbers".
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