Purpose Driven or Purpose Drivel?

The discerning side of my mind

[Lasher]

I was actually becoming fearful that I wouldn't find ANY body who refuses Warren's version of scripture twisting.

[Revelation 911]

My church sticks with what works; screechin' 'n preacjin', old-fashioned hymns and the King James Bible.

hey...glad to hear it - I love Charles Wesley - and when theres a group of oldsters who know 4 part harmony, its really beautiful

you do realize though, there was a day when those hymns were "new fangled" -

[Revelation 911]

nice post jude

I read it - some chapters really sparked useful discussion and got the group thinking and investigating thier beliefs

IMO - it was a worthy read - if not just for that reason

[Revelation 911]

I see no Good reason to give up time spent in His word to read someone else's view of it.

with that attitude, you'll miss Augustine, Spurgeon, Wesley, Calvin, Yancey, Lewis, Luther, Moody etc etc..

...youre certainly entitled - have fun

[Quix]

Certainly the whole Gospel is important.

I still have trouble believing that it isn't there in some form.

Even if there's 'merely' clear and consistent exhortation to read The Word, which seems clear to me that there is, then the Whole Gospel is there.

Also, I still believe the relationship and discipleship stuff in such churches would fill a lot of the gaps you focus on.

[maestro]

UR#8........BTTT

Re:Purpose Driven or Purpose Drivel?

Answer: Duvel

(Romans 10:17.......re: SINNERS SIN)

Maranatha

Saved from hell

[Quix]

I don't think the following testimonies from his website support your contentions at all:

I must say it has turned my life completely around. I no longer suffer the fear of my future, I am relearning again the priceless importance of living and walking daily with Christ in accordance with His will. I still am not employed but have the confidence that the Lord will soon work this out and lead me to the next position He has for me. Most importantly He has restored the desire within my heart to remain close to Him, find a means of service in the church and to share with others the incredible love, patience and comfort only He can provide. I thank God for the wonderful insight He has given you in writing this "Purpose Driven Life" 40 day study book, and pray that it will continue to bless others and be used for regular review by all of us.

May God continue to bless your ministry!!”

Don Gihring

---

“I just wanted to say what a fantastic book this is! I have been struggling with my faith for the best part of a year, feeling uninspired and full of doubts and guilt. The Purpose Driven Life has given me fresh start and a new challenge. Thank you for your wisdom and encouragement - and free resources too.”

Tracey, York. UK

---

You also sound like you sit in pretty stern, narrow, rigid judgment about their discipling and prep for baptism:

In the past seven years, more than 9,200 new believers have been baptized at Saddleback. The church has also started 34 daughter churches, and sent over 4,000 of its members on mission projects around the world.

---

I ALSO HAVE FOUND PERSONALLY, that your stance and focus has typically been problematic in my walk with God over 57 years. Believe me, I've had NO shortage of hell-fire-and brimstone preaching. Growing up, one more or less thought and felt that if Jesus returned while one was frowning without having a chance to repent, one went to hell ZIP.

I not in Jesus' teachings, HE HIMSELF WAS IN YOUR STANCE TOWARD THE PHARISEES, RANK HYPOCRITES. HE WAS NOT IN THAT STANCE TYPICALLY, MUCH AT ALL, TOWARD SEEKERS. Toward seekers, he was winsome, inviting, loving, gentle. He didn't mince words on occasion. But much more typically, HE HIMSELF was inviting toward seekers.

And, in reading Rick Warren's materials, I just do not find that your attitude and stance fits the reality of those materials or their application.

He is serious about infecting people with Jesus and Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is VERY SUFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE toward leading people into all truth; exposing sin; etc.

BUT I HAVE BEEN FINDING INCREASINGLY IN RECENT YEARS, THAT FOCUSING ON GOD'S LOVE FOR ME; LEARNING TO FALL MORE DEVOTEDLY IN LOVE WITH JESUS IS INFINITELY MORE EFFECTIVE AT CAUSING SIN TO FALL BY THE WAYSIDE IN MY LIFE THAN THE SCHOOLMARMMY SORT OF FOCUS IT SEEMS YOU DEMAND OF PREACHERS AND CHRISTIANS, ALL. I tried that focus for most of my 57 years. It was not very effective.

The focus Rick Warren espouses is, to my sense and experience, MORE BIBLICAL AND MORE EFFECTIVE in dealing with the problem of sin in a Christian's life as well as in facilitating, fostering, causing more intimacy with God.

I think that's why I find your stance so askew from reality as I know it. And that's why I find your attitude askew from the Biblical standard in such matters.

---

His exhortations regarding Bible study sound plenty serious and Biblical to me:

In God's eyes, why you do something is far more important than what you do.

On one occasion God told Samuel, “The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” (1 Samuel 16:7, NIV*) It is quite possible to do the right thing but with the wrong attitude.

This was Amaziah's problem, for “he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord but not wholeheartedly.” (2 Chronicles 25:2)

When you come to meet with God in the quiet time, you should have these proper attitudes:

1. Expectancy - Come before God with anticipation and eagerness. Expect to have a good time of fellowship with Him and receive a blessing from your time together. That was what David expected: "O God, You are my God, earnestly I seek You." (Psalm 63:1)

2. Reverence - Don't rush into God's presence, but prepare your heart by being still before Him and letting the quietness clear away the thoughts of the world. Listen to the prophet Habakkuk: "The Lord is in His holy temple; let all the earth be silent before Him." (Habakkuk 2:20; see also Psalm 89:7) Coming into the presence of the Lord is not like going to a football game or some other form of entertainment.

3. Alertness - Get wide-awake first. Remember that you are meeting with the Creator, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Redeemer of men. Be thoroughly rested and alert. The best preparation for a quiet time in the morning begins the night before. Get to bed early so you will be in good shape to meet God in the morning; He deserves your full attention.

4. Willingness to obey - This attitude is crucial: you don't come to your quiet time to choose what you will do or not do, but with the purpose of doing anything and everything that God wants you to do. Jesus said, "If anyone chooses to do God’s will he will find out whether My teaching comes from God or whether I speak on My own." (John 7:17) So come to meet the Lord having already chosen to do His will no matter what.

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WHICH PART OF "WILLINGNESS TO OBEY" sounds mealy mouthed and wimpy to you?

Which part of: "This attitude is crucial: you don't come to your quiet time to choose what you will do or not do, but with the purpose of doing anything and everything that God wants you to do. Jesus said, "If anyone chooses to do God’s will he will find out whether My teaching comes from God or whether I speak on My own."

SOUNDS WIMPY OR AVOIDANT OF THE SEARING SEARCHLIGHT OF HOLY SPIRIT, TO YOU????

---

Evidently you think that the pharisees and their stern, harsh stance were more effective at getting God into people's lives and sin out. I think the Biblical record indicates fiercely otherwise.

It is clear to me just from the materials on Warren's site where his heart is and where his application is. I have 0.00% trouble believing and trusting Holy Spirit to work powerfully through such a setup, structure, policy, attitude of ministry as I discern and read there.

I find your allegations and skepticism that people have been saved there to be extremely similar to the attitude of the pharisees in Jesus' dusty pathed days. You may not choose to rejoice with the angels over the thousands genuinely saved and discipled in that ministry, but I do.

[Quix]

I'm convinced that you will stand before Jesus The Christ exceedingly ashamed and repentant for your title about Rick Warren.

[jboot]

I found the book to be benign, even useful. It had a few glaring flaws. My main point of contention was the way Warren used a mish-mash of translations-some obscure or inaccurate-to get precisely the meaning that he needed out of the text. I found this uncomfortable, and in several cases misleading.

Our church also did the "40 Days of Purpose" tie-in campaign. Much of this material was seeker-sensitive drivel and zero-calorie doctrine, and some of it was pure emotional pap without any spiritual value whatsoever.

My final verdict: read the book (with scripture in hand) and ditch the marketing and the tie-ins.

[thePilgrim]

jboot: Our church also did the "40 Days of Purpose" tie-in campaign. Much of this material was seeker-sensitive drivel and zero-calorie doctrine, and some of it was pure emotional pap without any spiritual value whatsoever.

Yep, that is what I've observed. People with bad doctrine have taken this book and are running the wrong direction with it. They will dumb down the churches and turn them into their idea of a seeker sensitive fantasy if we let them and thus render the church irrevelant. The problem is that the Bible is clear: there is no such thing as a seeker, despite Quix's testimonial in a previous post.

I'll stick with the Bible over the illusion of seekers any day: There are none who seek for God; no, not one!

Christian.

[jboot]

People seek validation and acceptance, not God. We must be VERY careful to discern the difference between fleshy itching ears and Spirit-led responses, lest we concede some part (or all) of the gospel in order to appeal to the cravings of the masses. The gospel will always attract the sheep, but it will be a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to the goats. If everybody is content with your doctrine you are doing something wrong.

[Corin Stormhands]

I was actually becoming fearful that I wouldn't find ANY body who refuses Warren's version of scripture twisting.

Just out of curiosity, did you read the book?

[topcat54]

with that attitude, you'll miss Augustine, Spurgeon, Wesley, Calvin, Yancey, Lewis, Luther, Moody etc etc..

Of course the difference is that the truly great Christians authors do not need a marketing department to keep their work before the public. Theological fads some and go. Who will be reading "Purpose Driven" in 100 years, or 10 for that matter?

[Quix]

PLEASE show me your reference for:

There are none who seek for God; no, not one!

[Quix]

Thankfully, Brother Warren is greatly successful rescuring a church bedridden with horrid irrelevancy.

And PRAISE GOD FOR THAT!

[Quix]

Actually, my search indicates that your line:

There are none who seek for God; no, not one!

is of your own creation. At least it's not Scripture.

THE BIBLE SAYS:

HE THAT
SEEKS
ME
SHALL
FIND ME!

Actually, Brother Warren is on great Biblical foundation to begin discipleship with seekers.

You can hold your old maid school marm convention and throw rocks at him, if you wish.

Don't expect The Father, The Son or The Spirit to attend, except, probably, as Judge.

BTW, I think your bunn's too tight. Or, perhaps your garters.

[GrandEagle]

There is and has been so much discussion about this book that I think I'm going to have to read it so I can form an opinion on it.
I'm not generally into reading books like this, I usually stick with Gods word alone. I believe that I understand my purpose from that reading.
I don't see see a problem with books (in general) like this IF they point the reader back into Gods word.
I have a really good friend (who is in Iraq right now) that gets pushed around by the latest book - he can't ever really figure out just what to believe because he would rather read a book ABOUT Gods word, that read Gods word itself.
I can't speak intelligently about this particular one though, since I've not read it.

Thanks for the PING!

GE

[Seven_0]

>>>There are none who seek for God; no, not one!

is of your own creation. At least it's not Scripture.<<<

Probably a misquote, judging by the grammer, but try Rom 3:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[Quix]

THANKS.

I suppose I should think to use KJV word endings when searching in KJV.

How generically are we to apply that verse in view of the verses that do talk about people seeking after God?

HOWEVER, even considering the verse,

HOW ON EARTH is a person who has the least bit of an inclination to seek God--of whom I've met 100's or more--both in China and here--how on earth is such a person going to be drawn more

TO GOD

when they get near a church and brush up against prissy old maid school marm mentalities, attitudes, demeanors, manners, stances, policies, cliquishness and the like

vs

BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YOU ARE MY DISCIPLES, THAT YOU HAVE LOVE, ONE FOR ANOTHER.

???????

[Gotterdammerung]

It's supposed to be "All About God" but it's really "All About YOU".