From tomorrow’s London Times: Lambeth Comission May Take Action against ECUSA

London Times via Titusonenine blog. ^ | 2 September 2004 | unk

[ahadams2]

From tomorrow’s London Times: Lambeth Comission May Take Action against ECUSA

Filed under: General— kendall @ 9:29 pm

“The Episcopal Church in the United States faces exclusion from the worldwide Anglican communion as punishment for ordaining a gay bishop, The Times has learnt.

The draconian disciplinary measure is expected to be recommended by a commission set up by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, to resolve the crisis over homosexuality….

The commission’s findings, which will not be published officially until October, will cause widespread dismay among liberals and Anglican-Catholics in the West, who will regard it as a sign of capitulation to the conservative evangelical lobby.

But the alternative, an Anglican fudge, would alienate further the fast-growing churches in Africa and Asia, the Global South, leading inevitably to schism. A senior source last night told The Times: “This will not be a fudge. This report will have teeth.”

The exclusion of the American Church would not necessarily be permanent but would last until the province, which is financially powerful but numerically weak, “repented” of its actions in the election of Bishop Robinson, who lives with his male partner.

It would be allowed back in when Bishop Robinson retired, or in the unlikely event that he was removed from his post, as long as Ecusa did not consecrate any more similar bishops, or commit the other “sin” of sanctioning rites for the blessings of gay unions….

[ahadams2]

trial balloon from the Eames Commission ping.

[xJones]

But the alternative, an Anglican fudge, would alienate further the fast-growing churches in Africa and Asia, the Global South, leading inevitably to schism. A senior source last night told The Times: “This will not be a fudge. This report will have teeth.”

Three cheers for the Lambeth Comission! But did they really have to talk about fudge with regard to Vicky Gene? And the report will have 'teeth'?

Nevermind......

[ken5050]

an added bonus...those beginning court cases to force the "breakaway" parishes to cede their building, etc..to the dioceses..well, they just had the rug pulled out from under..

[bonfire]

Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

[q_an_a]

that makes the day a little happier. it is possbile with HOPE to have a new PASSION for life...pun intended as I watch the opening scene in the garden over and over. Pray for the church.

[Ex-Episcopalian]

I'll believe it when I actually see it.

[r9etb]

If you want to get a preview of the basic shape of the Lambeth Report, I would suggest that it will be found Communion and Discipline, which lays out the groundrules of what it means to be a "Communion."

I think the Lambeth Commission report will turn out to be pretty close to that.

[hiho hiho]

"It would be allowed back in when Bishop Robinson retired, or in the unlikely event that he was removed from his post, as long as Ecusa did not consecrate any more similar bishops, or commit the other “sin” of sanctioning rites for the blessings of gay unions…."

I have to say that this makes me angry. Is this whole thing about gays? It is a grave mistake to think that this is the true sin of the ECUSA!

[sionnsar]

Hardly enough, I think. Ousting Robinson won't stop the slide.

[RonF]

So, let's say this happens, and the ECUSA is thrown out of the Anglican Communion. Here's the first sentence of the ECUSA's constitution:

The Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America, otherwise known as The Episcopal Church (which name is hereby recognized as also designating the Church), is a constituent member of the Anglican Communion, a Fellowship within the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church, of those duly constituted Dioceses, Provinces, and regional Chruches in communion with the See of Cewnterbury, upholding and propagating the Historic Faith and Order as set forth in the Book of Common Prayer.

So, then, what would happen to the legal status of the ECUSA if the above was no longer true? What happens to it's claims on parish properties, especially those who claim that they are not longer part of the ECUSA and ARE members of the Anglican Communion?

[Mark in the Old South]

Who knows? The courts are very unpredictable and very irrational, consider they thin abortion and the right to privacy is in the Constitution. Federal judges have gotten into bed with evil so often they think it is good.

The courts will most likely be all over the map.

[ahadams2]

Mark is essentially correct - it's going to vary state by state, though once ecusa is no longer part of the Anglican Communion (as defined by the Anglican Communion - frank the heretic & co have already started to lie to ecusa members and say that the AC can't throw them out - frank made that statement in a clergy letter back in June or July) AND parishes can then show that as individual parishes they are part of a diocese which *is* in the Anglican Communion; I expect all except the most leftwing courts will find against ecusa either initially or on appeal...

[ahadams2]

While it's true that the vicki gene situation is nothing more than a symptom of the real problem with ecusa; none the less the Commission has chosen well in making it the lynchpin of the case against ecusa. The reason for this is that the ecusa leadership will never, ever, recant and repent of their apostasy in the area of human sexuality. Thus it will be plain to even the casual observer that no repentance has been forthcoming, no matter what frank, vicki gene, and the other wackos manage to get reported by friendly media.

[sionnsar]

So, then, what would happen to the legal status of the ECUSA if the above was no longer true?

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but I would hazard a guess that ECUSA's lawyers would argue that this was true at the time of adoption, that the termination of the relationship was involuntary from ECUSA's persepctive, and so this has no effect upon ECUSA's status as a legal entity.

[Clint N. Suhks]

While it's true that the vicki gene situation is nothing more than a symptom of the real problem with ecusa; none the less the Commission has chosen well in making it the lynchpin of the case against ecusa. The reason for this is that the ecusa leadership will never, ever, recant and repent of their apostasy in the area of human sexuality. Thus it will be plain to even the casual observer that no repentance has been forthcoming, no matter what frank, vicki gene, and the other wackos manage to get reported by friendly media.

I know who Frank the heretic is but who is vicki gene? My son had lunch with "reverend" Frank after his confirmation ceremony. He wanted to ask him why the church allowed unrepentant sinners be bishops but chickened out at last minute.

I agree 100% that the ecusa will never recant its embracement of those who unrepentantly practice perversion as its leaders, the church is too full of liberals like RonF and the like to change. It's too far gone...all we can do is pray for schism.

[RonF]

Vicki Gene is V. Gene Robinson, ordained by the ECUSA as Bishop of New Hampshire. Bp. Robinson is also divorced from his wife after fathering two children with her, and is currently openly gay and living in a non-chaste relationship with a male lover. All this was well known at the time he was voted to be Bishop by the Diocese of New Hampshire, and when his election was confirmed by General Convention 2003. But, they did it anyway.

[Clint N. Suhks]

Vicki Gene is V. Gene Robinson

Ohhh...thanks for the clarification. Now if he had referred to him as the sodomite bishop I would have known right off bat. Figures he destroyed a marriage and left behind his children for the selfishness of hedonistic perversion. It's happened twice in my immediate family and I've seen first hand the devastation it caused to my cousins and my wife's family. Paraphilic disorder destroys all families.

[Clint N. Suhks]

Pray for schism!

[ahadams2]

sorry, for the confusion - the reason I always refer to him as 'vicki gene' is first off because he's not capable of being a bishop; and secondly because the leftists all insist on refering to him as 'v. gene...' so as to avoid the obvious clue in his name, regarding his confusion concerning his own gender.