Posted on 12/19/2004 6:36:32 AM PST by Robert Drobot
".....a lesson in detachment".....Nevertheless, the behavior of certain laity in Boston is really bordering on the hysterical.
Nonesense! The people in the Catholic Church have rights - the members of a parish have rights. So saith the 1983 Code of Canon Law. Their parishes are being forcibly taken away without just cause, without the proper review of the situation by the laity with the bishop, and without so much as idle consultation with the people. It is simply being done by fiat in Boston, NYC, Brooklyn, Newark NJ, Albany, Philadelphia, and elsewhere.
Want some concrete examples? www.anti-abomination.com
Many parishes are being arbitrarily closed simply because they stand upon valuable real estate. It has little or nothing to do with parish finance itself. Small parishes CAN sustain themselves with intelligent management - I have seen ethnic parishes with fewer then 200 active members survive and pay all their bills, due to haeavy lay involvement in maintainance, administration, fundraising, etc. Ethnic parishes have a right to exist.
Else.....why then should we allow all black or hispanic parishes to exist? Frequently they are poor, and have trouble paying their way......but they would never close them as this would disturb the "preferential option for the poor"........as long as the poor are not white northern Europeans in background.
If a particular parish church is underattended - and has people living within its boundries - that is the fault of the clergy, and hence of the Archdiocese. Boston and all the other major dioceses in this land have done a wonderful job of downsizing........instead of doing what Christ commanded: to throw out the net with which to catch men.
Catholics have a right to protest their Bishops, if their actions are unjust (which they are). They also have a right to sue for thier money back in any contributions - if they are being used in a manner unbefitting - or contrary to the expressed or implied purpose of use as understood by the donor.
To the Apostate Bishops of our church, who have ruined it......I say cut off their lights, heat, and food. Starve the rats out! Contribute nothing - until and unless they conform to church tradition, theology, and teach orthodoxy with the love of Christ.
I can't say I blame you. If I were Catholic, I wouldn't have either. I have attended protestant churches where I would be considered "in communion" but refused because I did not agree with thier position on things.
I had not attended Mass in almost 20 years and took my husband one Sunday a few years ago to the Cathedral of Sts Simon and Paul in PHX (he had never been to Mass), and I was shocked at the differences since I was a child. People raising their hands, mumbling, the giving of the chalice, women serving the Host. It was shocking. When I had last attended a Mass, most of the women wore mantillas and knelt at the altar rail for Communion.
Why are the churches half empty?
They were half-empty for decades. Italians like to go to Mass with Italians, so the churches remained open as long as economically feasible.
Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
Saint Pius X, pray for us.
Saint Padre Pio pray for us.
Amen.
It may have been. I don't remember if his first name was Gerald or Gerard. I was too distracted by the lavender shirt.
I got the impression he thinks actual Catholics are kooks.
"Well, it's one thing to speak one's mind. It's quite another to occupy a building in defiance of the bishop"
Bishops should not unilaterally decide to close churches without consulting the members of a parish first. Why must the emphasis on virtue be one-sided, with lay people always the ones expected to be humble and patient and long-suffering and docile? How about high churchmen demonstrating some moral virtue occasionally--beginning with justice?
We've learned to branch out. Sooner or later we have to get over our prejudices. We go to Mass with all sorts now!
< /s >
"He wore a lavender shirt with his priestly collar and jacket. It took me a minute to figure out why. How bold the
darkness has become!"
Yes, the Gramscian infiltration of evil seems to be everywhere. This infiltration is not the church I was baptized in. There will be a cleansing.
You're on the West Coast. I suspect your knowledge of ethnic parishes is limited.
A few moments after I arrived, I was looking around for a Missal, and there were none, so I asked the lady sitting next to me if there were any. She said no, there weren't. So, I asked her, is this a Catholic Church? Half in jest, half seriously because the sight of the pastoral associate woman was right out of a new age hour of power. It was shocking in its flagrant Protestantism.
Before Mass began, the priest suggested we all 'take a few moments' and get to know who we were worshippping with. He suggested we exchange names, addresses and phone numbers, if we were so inclined.
When Mass was ended, and I was in the entry way to the Church, the lady that was sitting next to me, approached me and said 'everything's really changed.'
She said it with a degree of longing for what was, and I think there are many people in the pews who feel that way, but are not inclined to speak up, because they think if the Priest is doing it, it must be ok.
So, not only is it 'Priest, where is thy Mass?' It's Parishoner, where is thy Church?
Since we're on the subject of Priests and Bishops and heretics and apostates. Let me leave you with this piece from Bishop Clark, printed in the Diocese of Rochester's (NY) Catholic Courier, concerning renovation of the Sacred Heart Cathedral: "One of the gems of our renewed cathedral will be its eucharistic chapel...You may be aware that the centerpiece of the eucharistic chapel will be the tabernacle from the old St. Philip Neri Church, which burned to the ground in 1967. That fire took the lives of Father George J. Weinmann and Sister Lillian Marie, who -the evidence suggests- lost their lives while attempting to retrieve the Blessed Sacrament from the Tabernacle.
And with that, let us remember, and pray for the brave and valiant Fr. Weinmann and Sister Lillian Marie.
My mother was born in Italy. I was partly raised by non-English speakers.
I suggest your knowledge of "ethnics" is non-existent.
"I don't remember if his first name was Gerald or Gerard."
The reason I ask is that Gerald O'Collins is considered to be one of the "rising stars" among Catholic theologians in the N.O. establishment. Words like "the next Karl Rahner" are used about him, as though that were some sort of compliment.
However, I have had my suspicions about him for a while since I found out that it was he who defended Jacques Dupuis (he of Fatima intereligious abomination fame) against the CDF. He effectively got him off the charges and has enabled him to continue teaching theology - Collins has very powerful admirers in Rome!!!
It would be interesting if this defender of heretics turned out to be just another bum-bandit after all!
Even us mutts?
Seriously, being in a diverse parish with good, upstanding priests is a great place to be.
Wrong. They are half-empty because the New Mass is losing the faithful at breakneck speed. Check the traditional parishes. They are bursting at the seems with young families and vocations. The New Mass, on the other hand, is like the new architecture--cheaply made and not built to last.
**Disobedience is not a good idea.**
I agree completely. There are other ways to fight this.
Polish mother who attended a Polish parish in central Texas, which I have visited and attended Mass in many times.
Guess again.
You're ranting, UR, and I'm off of ranting, for Advent.
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