Posted on 12/19/2004 6:36:32 AM PST by Robert Drobot
For years, they followed the rules as best they could, attending Mass at least once a week, teaching religious education, helping in the office or the rectory.
But for weeks now, in a quiet but extraordinary uprising against the church authority they had been taught to respect, hundreds of Catholics in eight communities in and around Boston have been occupying churches the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston is attempting to close.
They have taken over the roles formerly administered by priests and paid church employees, doing everything from leading worship to cleaning buildings. One major thing they cannot do, consecrate the Eucharist, is being done for them by a secret network of sympathetic priests.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
OVER EIGHTY PLUS CHURCHES CLOSING, and for what.....to pay for the sins of the diocese hierarchy.
This is the cancer Karol Jozef Wojtyla refuses to recognize, and in refusing to see what everyone else sees, he dashes off praise to his hand picked heretics and enablers of the rape of children.
This is a V2 horror show in which the chairs of bishops are equal to the seat of Peter. They sit equal in their failure to God and His faithful. The seat of Peter is a mere formality to be referenced only by necessity.
In their arrogant defiance they think they can stand before God claiming innocence. They will point to Rome, and Rome will shrug its shoulders, and point to V2.
Nobody's guilty.....the devil did it.
Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
Saint Pius X, pray for us.
Saint Padre Pio pray for us.
Please FReepmail me if you want on, or off, this ping list.
$300,000,000 in "gifts to God" have been diverted to settlement of pedofile cases. People will not do this much longer. It becomes a perverted scam.
Not sure many in hierarchy believe in the Devil and there's probably others that doubt that God exisits.
[Longsuffering. It is necessary to preserve the Latin word, on account of the comparison with magnanimity.]
Objection 1. It seems that patience is the same as longanimity. For Augustine says (De Patientia i) that "we speak of patience in God, not as though any evil made Him suffer, but because He awaits the wicked, that they may be converted." Wherefore it is written (Sirach 5:4): "The Most High is a patient rewarder." Therefore it seems that patience is the same as longanimity.
Objection 2. Further, the same thing is not contrary to two things. But impatience is contrary to longanimity, whereby one awaits a delay: for one is said to be impatient of delay, as of other evils. Therefore it seems that patience is the same as longanimity.
Objection 3. Further, just as time is a circumstance of wrongs endured, so is place. But no virtue is distinct from patience on the score of place. Therefore in like manner longanimity which takes count of time, in so far as a person waits for a long time, is not distinct from patience.
Objection 4.On the contrary, a gloss [Origen, Comment. in Ep. ad Rom. ii] on Rm. 2:4, "Or despisest thou the riches of His goodness, and patience, and longsuffering?" says: "It seems that longanimity differs from patience, because those who offend from weakness rather than of set purpose are said to be borne with longanimity: while those who take a deliberate delight in their crimes are said to be borne patiently."
I answer that, Just as by magnanimity a man has a mind to tend to great things, so by longanimity a man has a mind to tend to something a long way off. Wherefore as magnanimity regards hope, which tends to good, rather than daring, fear, or sorrow, which have evil as their object, so also does longanimity. Hence longanimity has more in common with magnanimity than with patience.
Nevertheless it may have something in common with patience, for two reasons. First, because patience, like fortitude, endures certain evils for the sake of good, and if this good is awaited shortly, endurance is easier: whereas if it be delayed a long time, it is more difficult. Secondly, because the very delay of the good we hope for, is of a nature to cause sorrow, according to Prov. 13:12, "Hope that is deferred afflicteth the soul." Hence there may be patience in bearing this trial, as in enduring any other sorrows. Accordingly longanimity and constancy are both comprised under patience, in so far as both the delay of the hoped for good (which regards longanimity) and the toil which man endures in persistently accomplishing a good work (which regards constancy) may be considered under the one aspect of grievous evil.
For this reason Tully (De Invent. Rhet. ii) in defining patience, says that "patience is the voluntary and prolonged endurance of arduous and difficult things for the sake of virtue or profit." By saying "arduous" he refers to constancy in good; when he says "difficult" he refers to the grievousness of evil, which is the proper object of patience; and by adding "continued" or "long lasting," he refers to longanimity, in so far as it has something in common with patience.
This suffices for the Replies to the First and Second Objections.
Reply to Objection 3. That which is a long way off as to place, though distant from us, is not simply distant from things in nature, as that which is a long way off in point of time: hence the comparison fails. Moreover, what is remote as to place offers no difficulty save in the point of time, since what is placed a long way from us is a long time coming to us.
We grant the fourth argument. We must observe, however, that the reason for the difference assigned by this gloss is that it is hard to bear with those who sin through weakness, merely because they persist a long time in evil, wherefore it is said that they are borne with longanimity: whereas the very fact of sinning through pride seems to be unendurable; for which reason those who sin through pride are stated to be borne with patience.
*Patience. Longanimity. Wait on the Lord, brother. This too shall pass
Disobedience is not a good idea, true. But false obedience is the scourge of the faith and it is the primary enabler of the kind of corruption and abuse of office now pandemic in the Church. Resistance is not only called for during this time of crisis, but it is REQUIRED of the rank and file. No true Catholic can stand idly by while the faith is being deliberately wrecked--surely not in the name of a bogus obedience!
The figure is closer to a billion dollars.
Bull. There is a difference between patience and long-suffering and moral cowardice and passivity. There is a time to act, especially in a time of crisis. Here is St. Thomas Aquinas on this very point:
"There being an imminent danger for the Faith, prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their subjects. Thus, St. Paul, who was a subject of St. Peter, questioned him publicly on account of an imminent danger of scandal in a matter of Faith. And, as the Glossa of St. Augustine puts it (Ad Galatas 2.14),'St. Peter himself gave the example to those who govern so that if sometime they stray from the right way, they will not reject a correction as unworthy even if it comes from their subjects....'
"The reprehension was just and useful, and the reason for it was not light: there was a danger for the preservation of Gospel truth....The way it took place was appropriate, since it was public and manifest. For this reason, St. Paul writes: 'I spoke to Cephas,' that is, Peter, 'before everyone,' since the simulation practiced by St. Peter was fraught with danger to everyone. (Summa Theologiae, IIa IIae, Q. 33, A. 4)
"Some say that fraternal corrrection does not extend to the prelates either because man should not raise his voice against heaven, or because the prelates are easily scandalized if corrected by their subjects. However, this does not happen, since when they sin, the prelates do not represent heaven, and, therefore, must be corrected. And those who correct them charitably do not raise their voices against them, but in their favor, since the admonishment is for their own sake...For this reason, according to other [authors], the precept of fraternal correction extends also to the prelates, so that they may be corrected by their subjects." (IV Sententiarum, D. 19, Q. 2, A. 2)
Insurance covers the vast majority of the amount of the settlements.
If O'Malley sells these "occupied" parish plants, it will become the responsibility of the new owner to evict the squatters.
The priest looked like an aging hippie, and the Pastoral Associate (title listed in Church bulletin) who is a woman spoke with a crisp British accent. She was adorned in a full-length white satin robe, and delivered the homily.
Before Mass began she informed the Congregation that she had been asked, by our Bishop (Matthew Clark) to become part of the Pastoral Leadership at a suburban Church, which she accepted. I'm assuming that she is considered or will soon be considered a Pastoral Leader. In your opinion, is this the means by which the Church seeks to install female priests, without actually having to address the issue or repeal the Celibacy requirement?
Have a couple of other question for you as well, if you don't mind. Very close to my home is another Church, actually the sign outside reads Chapel. The sign attests to it being Roman Catholic, but also notes that it is part of the Fathers of the Society of St. Pius the V. Do you know anything about this Society?
Finally, I've recently joined a local Parish, and the Priest assigned to that Parish, who I like very much, has the following title following his name, K.C.H.S., Administrator. Do you know what those initials stand for?
This is most irregular. Only a priest or deacon may deliver the homily.
Finally, I've recently joined a local Parish, and the Priest assigned to that Parish, who I like very much, has the following title following his name, K.C.H.S., Administrator. Do you know what those initials stand for?
I believe "K.C.H.S." stands for Knight Commander of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem, a papal knighthood.
During the brief discussion of Fatima, a Jesuit from Rome by the name of Fr. Gerard Collins was interviewed. He wore a lavender shirt with his priestly collar and jacket. It took me a minute to figure out why. How bold the darkness has become! Collins quickly dismissed the third secret of Fatima. He stated the bishop in white revelation referred to the shooting of the Pope in 1981, and he was glad the Vatican finally released it to silence the religious fanatics.
This is what we are up against in Rome.
Bishop Clark is a far left radical. I'm sure he would like his female "pastoral leaders" to be ordained someday--but since he has already eliminated the distinctions between lay woman and priest(as far as he's concerned,)this may be a moot point.
The Society of Pius V is a group of formerly SSPX priests who were expelled from the Society because of their sedevacantist views. Their Masses are valid. If I had to choose between attending the traditional Mass at their chapel and the kind of Novus Ordo abomination you suffered-through this morning, it would be no contest. I would definitely attend the SSPV Mass. We are living in a time of crisis and so the faithful must seek out the faith wherever they can find it.
KCHS stands for Knight Commander (of the Equestrian Order) of the Holy Sepulchre--a title awarded by the Vatican for outstanding service to the Church.
After the Pastoral Associate delivered the news of her transfer, the Priest and she walked hand in hand down the aisle, and he joked about such a display not being in the GIRM. This was High-Mass, mind you.
May God forgive me, but this Mass I attended today made me feel ill.
I can't wait until I have a chance to review all of this with my Priest. Since there are so few Priests, and the ones that there are have so many resonsibilities, I have been making use of the Confessional as a Q&A session with my Priest, along with Confessing my Sins.
I avoided the Church and Confession for 29 years, now I don't feel at ease unless I go every week or two. I've also noticed a tendency towards Scrupulosity. My Priest has helped me with that. I can see how Scrupulosity could easily transmogrify into a mental illness.
I believe "K.C.H.S." stands for Knight Commander of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem, a papal knighthood.
Thank you.
Thanks, UR and a Blessed Christmas to you and your family.
God bless you and yours as well. In fact, I wish a blessed Christmas for all Christians on this site and for their families.
And please pray for those who are at Protestant/Catholic "Communities" and thirst for the truth. We end our masses with the prayer to St.Michael the Archangel, for all those who are lost and want to come home.
Merry Christmas!
What kind of insurance is that? Homeowners liability? Personal injury?
Wow. I am in full support with these people (vigilers)and I'm not even Catholic. It is interesting for me, as an outsider, to see V2 backfire on the hierarchy. Hopefully, this will lead to a cleansing of the Catholic Hierarchy.
While not Catholic, I did attend Catholic grade school and mass weekly as a child, even if I could not participate. I have a high respect for the traditionalists and the tridentine movement. I also pray that Rome and these liberal Bishops will repent of their evil ways.
AlbionGirl, I feel very sorry you had to go through with that horrible liberal mass. I read up on "Pastoral Leaders" and can see how some would use this to ease women into roles of priests. Delivering a homily? That is outrageous! And holding hands? I'm speechless. I would have gotten up and walked out, and again I'm not Catholic, just hearing about the disrespect shown by that priest makes me upset.
I have attended TLM here in CA and I do love the quiet respect of the TLM.
I'm glad you found a parish you appear to like. Good luck to you.
"Not sure many in hierarchy believe in the Devil and there's probably others that doubt that God exisits."
I would disagree. There is no such thing as an "atheist" in reality; only agnostics. I say this because an atheist sayd that he refuses to believe in something......but in doing so he implies that this "something" may and does actually exist. It becomes a philospohlical issue.
Now, as to your statement.....I would agree that there are many priests who do not acknowledge the power, majesty, adn divine power of God. In doing so they are agnostic - in as much as they simply choose to functionally ignore the reality of God as he truly is. They simply do not let the full effect of that reality of God effect them. So they do not care for or about Him.......and this shows in everything they do.
Now as to belief in the devil. There are three kinds of priests:
1. the good old fashioned ones who know exactly who and what the Devil is and does, and war against him spiritually through prayer and the Sacraments with all their might. There are very few of these left, but these truly serve God. .
2. the stupid modernist priest.....the "useful idiots" who in their idiocy deny the reality, power, and works of the Devil with the same agnosticism with which they deny the same of God. In their foolishness, they are unwitting servants of the Devil.
3. the satanist priest - who, on one level or another, consciously serves and worships LUcifer as the Prince of this world. He may publicly appear to deny the existance/reality of the devil.....and in a similar mode deny God to a greater and lesser extent. But ultimately,he believes in both........but has made a clear decision to serve one and not the other.
#3 is the most dangerous. Some of their numbers wear mitres.
Vatican II is not "backfiring" on anybody. Many of these closings should have been done years ago. Ethnic parishes that are within blocks of other parishes, and both churches are half empty, no longer make sense economically.
I believe personal injury, but I'm not certain.
Perhaps I should have been clearer. The 'backfiring' I was referring to was that (in my understanding) V2 sought to give the laity more of a role in the church. These vigilers are taking that idea an running with it. They are taking thier role in the Church and using it to speak their mind about these closings.
Regardless of any possible economic benefits of these closings, there is a strong emotional aspect this. I have had a church that my grandparents and parents and my husbands grandparents and parents grew up in stolen out from under us, and it is heartbreaking. I can sympathise with these vigilers.
Well, it's one thing to speak one's mind. It's quite another to occupy a building in defiance of the bishop.
Their battle is futile, as these parishes will be closed. O'Malley can simply wait them out or let the next owner deal with them.
I am afraid you are right, that they will eventually be removed. Possibly through duplicity. But that does not change the realization among they laity that they no longer have to be passive regarding what they percieve as wrong behaviour on the part of the hierarchy.
Seems like I've read quite a number of articles that said that the insurance was NOT covering the majority of these cases. I also believe I read that some of the insurers were suing the Catholic Dioceses to try & recovers some of their losses.
I'm not a feminist and I oppose female clergy of any stripe. Second, regardless of the economics, these vigilers feel and believe their churches are being stolen from them. I have been following this closely, and the following quote from the lady in the article broke my heart in sympathy:
Esther T. Doherty, 77, offered a similar assessment of her refusal to leave St. Therese in Everett, where she was married 52 years ago. "Doing the vigil is something I would not have done years ago. But my heart is broken. I didn't expect to outlive my church."
I really wouldn't describe it as horrible. It was like returning to a home that you used to live in, and have found completely at odds with your recollection, and your first reaction is to bolt from there as fast as you can. I really don't like feeling that way about the Mass. It is the re-presentation of the Last Supper, I want to feel connected not disconnected.
I read up on "Pastoral Leaders" and can see how some would use this to ease women into roles of priests.
I've not read up on them, this is the first I've ever heard the title or category named. But, the whole picture had a back-door sense to it. Maybe I'm wrong. God forgive me, if I am.
Delivering a homily? That is outrageous!
So I'm told. It was also delivered mic-in-hand as she traversed the Altar. Wasn't a bad homily, didn't teach against Church teachings, to the best of my knowledge.
And holding hands? I'm speechless. I would have gotten up and walked out, and again I'm not Catholic, just hearing about the disrespect shown by that priest makes me upset.
It was inappropriate and fluff to the core, but seemingly very innocent.
Right now I'm listening to The Tallis Scholars sing Thomas Tallis' In manus tuas, and it dwarfs any earlier sense of dissatisfaction.
I'm glad you found a parish you appear to like.
It's a wonderful Parish, one of the oldest in my City. The Priest is a rock-solid, highly intelligent, man of God. What more could I ask for?
Last week at Mass he was telling the story of how Padre Pio used to tell those whose Confessions he was hearing, and who he suspected of being recalcitrant, to come back when they were ready to tell the truth. That's a Priest!
From now on, I will take pains to get to Mass there by bus, if I have to. I could have this morning, but I didn't anticipate the bad weather, and as a consequence didn't get up that hour earlier.
I'm fortunate to have such an erudite, non-nonsense Priest. Pray for him, and for all the other stalwarts like him. And perhaps even for those Priests who appear to be the wrecking crew.
Good luck to you.
Thank you, and Blessed and Merry Christmas to you.
The Boston archdiocese has been morally bankrupt for years.
The financial ramifications of immoral clergy are only now beginning to take effect.
By selling off property, O'Malley isn't addressing the root cause of the crisis.
Unfortunately most modernist archdioceses are now nothing more than "whited sepulchers" - you can paint all you want, but only God can bring them back to life.
"Unless the Lord build the house, the laborers labor in vain" Psalm 126.
yet, and I hope it continues. I'm afraid that is the next step, and is already happening in some parishes based on other posts here at Freep. Heresy does not come boldly in, it creeps in.
I have a great love for the Catholic faith, the parish I attended as a child was Very traditional even in the 1980's.
Last week at Mass he was telling the story of how Padre Pio used to tell those whose Confessions he was hearing, and who he suspected of being recalcitrant, to come back when they were ready to tell the truth. That's a Priest!
I agree.
The mass was illicit. Your bishop, Matthew Clark and my bishop, Howard Hubbard, have been good friends since Seminary. Both are ultra liberal. Both were appointed to their present positions, at a youthful age, by Archbishop Jadot. He sought to manipulate future papal elections by inserting 'like minded', liberal, and young priests, into the position of Bishop.
When a homily is given, it may never be preached by a lay man, lay woman, or non-ordained religious, such as a nun. Only ordained men may given the homily.
The Code of Canon Law states:
Canon 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text.
From the latest 2003 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM):
66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.[65] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.
[Reference 65.] Cf. Codex Iuris Canonici, can. 767 ' 1; Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, response to dubium regarding can. 767 § 1: AAS 79 (1987), p. 1249; Interdicasterial Instruction on certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the sacred ministry of priests, Ecclesiae de mysterio, 15 August 1997 , art. 3: AAS 89 (1997), p. 864.
PLEASE take a few minutes and review the following links.
To determine if the mass you attended today was also 'invalid', go here: IS YOUR MASS VALID?
To gain a better understanding of how Jadot attempted to undermine the Magisterium, go here: Still Proud Of Bishops He Gave U.S.
I believe we may have had this discussion before but, just in case ... you do have options other than those propsed by UltimaRatio. The Catholic Church is both Westerna and Eastern. To learn more about the 22 different liturgies celebrated in the Catholic Church, go here: CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES
The Eastern Catholic Churches are considered the jewels in the crown of the church. They are fully catholic, attached to Rome and provide a very orthodox liturgy. To find an Eastern Catholic Church in your area, go here: Eastern Catholic Churches in the U.S.
AMEN !!!!!!!!
Thanks for the links, and a Blessed Christmas to you and yours, NYer.
"During the brief discussion of Fatima, a Jesuit from Rome by the name of Fr. Gerard Collins was interviewed."
Are you sure it wasn't Gerald O'Collins SJ - an Aussie who teaches at the Gregorian?
".....a lesson in detachment".....Nevertheless, the behavior of certain laity in Boston is really bordering on the hysterical.
Nonesense! The people in the Catholic Church have rights - the members of a parish have rights. So saith the 1983 Code of Canon Law. Their parishes are being forcibly taken away without just cause, without the proper review of the situation by the laity with the bishop, and without so much as idle consultation with the people. It is simply being done by fiat in Boston, NYC, Brooklyn, Newark NJ, Albany, Philadelphia, and elsewhere.
Want some concrete examples? www.anti-abomination.com
Many parishes are being arbitrarily closed simply because they stand upon valuable real estate. It has little or nothing to do with parish finance itself. Small parishes CAN sustain themselves with intelligent management - I have seen ethnic parishes with fewer then 200 active members survive and pay all their bills, due to haeavy lay involvement in maintainance, administration, fundraising, etc. Ethnic parishes have a right to exist.
Else.....why then should we allow all black or hispanic parishes to exist? Frequently they are poor, and have trouble paying their way......but they would never close them as this would disturb the "preferential option for the poor"........as long as the poor are not white northern Europeans in background.
If a particular parish church is underattended - and has people living within its boundries - that is the fault of the clergy, and hence of the Archdiocese. Boston and all the other major dioceses in this land have done a wonderful job of downsizing........instead of doing what Christ commanded: to throw out the net with which to catch men.
Catholics have a right to protest their Bishops, if their actions are unjust (which they are). They also have a right to sue for thier money back in any contributions - if they are being used in a manner unbefitting - or contrary to the expressed or implied purpose of use as understood by the donor.
To the Apostate Bishops of our church, who have ruined it......I say cut off their lights, heat, and food. Starve the rats out! Contribute nothing - until and unless they conform to church tradition, theology, and teach orthodoxy with the love of Christ.
I can't say I blame you. If I were Catholic, I wouldn't have either. I have attended protestant churches where I would be considered "in communion" but refused because I did not agree with thier position on things.
I had not attended Mass in almost 20 years and took my husband one Sunday a few years ago to the Cathedral of Sts Simon and Paul in PHX (he had never been to Mass), and I was shocked at the differences since I was a child. People raising their hands, mumbling, the giving of the chalice, women serving the Host. It was shocking. When I had last attended a Mass, most of the women wore mantillas and knelt at the altar rail for Communion.
Why are the churches half empty?
They were half-empty for decades. Italians like to go to Mass with Italians, so the churches remained open as long as economically feasible.
Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
Saint Pius X, pray for us.
Saint Padre Pio pray for us.
Amen.
It may have been. I don't remember if his first name was Gerald or Gerard. I was too distracted by the lavender shirt.
I got the impression he thinks actual Catholics are kooks.
"Well, it's one thing to speak one's mind. It's quite another to occupy a building in defiance of the bishop"
Bishops should not unilaterally decide to close churches without consulting the members of a parish first. Why must the emphasis on virtue be one-sided, with lay people always the ones expected to be humble and patient and long-suffering and docile? How about high churchmen demonstrating some moral virtue occasionally--beginning with justice?
We've learned to branch out. Sooner or later we have to get over our prejudices. We go to Mass with all sorts now!
< /s >
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