Posted on 01/23/2005 12:39:01 PM PST by traviskicks
Buddah never rejected Christ being that he died hundreds of years before Jesus was even born. He had never heard Jesus teachings to reject. If he had heard them, I think he would have accepted them, since he taught much the same philosophy. An interesting point...not only does Krishna and Christ come from the same latin root word meaning "enlightened one", but Buddah also means "enlightened one.
traviskicks...perhaps Buddah, Krishna, and Christ were all the same soul? For an interesting study look into the story of Adam Kadmon. It states in summary that Adam, God's son, was reincarnated as many men including David until he finally achieved a life without sin, therefore cleansing all mankind through his sacrifice. In other words the soul that plunged all mankind into sin also had to be responsible for saving it. Karma. But, the actual story is more complicated than that. Not saying I believe it, but it is interesting.
One question that I haven't heard answered is, that if Christ is the only key to heaven, then what happened to all those before Him? What about those who could never hear of Him? Even today there are people in distant corners of the earth, who by no choosing of their own, are seperated from any information about Christ.
Thus, it seems clear that the phrase 'faith in Christ will lead to heaven' is not meant literally, as described throughout the paper.
Another excerpt:
Or this individual may follow the path of monks and evangelicals and devote his life to spreading the word and teachings of God. Individuals who are able to approach very close to God and posses the proper characteristics (as He judges them) may, provided they are willing, become great teachers and holy men and influence millions or even billions of people. Such people arrive few and far between. The Buddha said:
...'I am not the first Buddha Who came upon this earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a Master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach to you His religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal, in spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.' His disciples will number many thousands, while Mine number many hundreds.' (55)
Was he speaking of Jesus, or another prophet? Can he really know? The Bible foretells a future prophet and other religions speak of the future. Most religions were founded by individuals. However, even as these 'prophet' humans work to enact the will of God, they are inextricably a product of their times, culture, and individuality. One must be careful not to loose God's true messages by focusing on the style of their writings, rather then the essence of it. In the future there is no reason to doubt that others will be used by God in similar ways. "Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God" (Corinthians 7:20) Jesus said, If anyone chooses to do God's will he will find out whether my my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. (John 6:57)
jay, this also has some reference to what you are saying. That is an interesting idea. I would say that the karma aspect of Buddhism is just as difficult to prove, or rationally conceive, as the idea of eternal heaven and hell from a Christian perspective. I think that one really has to go on faith as to what happens after death. I mean, where can one even start to rationally analyze it?
I was trying to poke some holes in what you wrote, but found myself unable to do so! so - well said. I'll have to reflect on that a bit.
However, you said: "and the time is not ours to determine"
This is a direct attack on our free will. If God's will has a structure similar to us and our brains, as shown by the picture in the paper, then His will can effect us, but cannot be all controlling. This agrees with the Christian general philosophy of paths laid out by God, which one chooses. So, there may be some instances where we cannot control our own death, but I would argue there are at least some where we can.
What really intriqued me at first about Christianity was its absolute discipline in all areas of life, including even thought!
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Yes, the Buddhist faith has even more emphasis on this area. Controlling one's thoughts is key to controlling one's actions, so it does make a bit of sense. For example, it's like the liberals throwing money at a problem instead of getting to the root of the problem. :)
I don't believe Christianity is overly restrictive of sexual pleasure? or? I think all relgions recognize the vice of Lust is a terrible vice. It might be true that some expand on this farther what was meant to be. Although the old testemate has a lot of emphasis on 'purity', 'virginity' etc...
"That, I think would be a deal breaker if there ever was one. "
lol! too true...
Perhaps so traviskicks. On Free Republic if you can not hit someone's "hot button" within the subject line, first few sentences or paragraph it is usually not worth reading the conclusion which requires further effort. This post hit my hot button because the author is obviously an intellectual or pretends to be one. In this particular case I believe 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise...; Free Republic!???
God does not need to be explained by intellectuals ...only feared, worshiped and glorified. If the author is making the case for salvation all he needs to say is "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..." John 3:18
Oh, not at all! We can choose -- between God and no-God. But, life is not ours to take. If we choose to take it, we do an unrighteous act -- and condemn ourselves with our own free will because we make a decision that belongs to God. We are free to choose, but that choice must not implicitly reject or replace God. As James points out: works and faith must go together.
BTW, once you accept God in your heart, you are never free again to choose against Him.
Buddhism, as I know it, has the user define what is right and wrong. That is easy. "I won't think sexual thoughts between 2-3pm AND I won't have sex with more than 2 women at a time!"
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Christianity says even sexual thoughts are equivalent to the act! As a college student and a Marine, I assure you this is quite frustrating and also an endless source of energy!
The difference is Christianity has objective values, while Buddhism is about self-discovery. As I understand it, there are very few objective criteria by which the Buddhist judge will use once you die, if there is a judge at all.
Ah! oh I see what you are getting at - sry I misunderstood.
Yea, I think what you are describing is true, but I also think the difference might be less than one might think.
By looking inwards to oneself you cannot help but discover something like the Christian objective good. And, of course, the bible does not contain explicit directions for every moral situation either. Meditation on compassion etc... is a standard exercise. Buddhist teachings have generally the same lessons as Christian teachings, as far as right and wrong. However, there is nothing like the 10 commandments or, like your saying, any objective verification.
From what you've said I can see how looking at sin etc.. from a Christian perspective can be more motivating towards active change. This is something that should perhaps be added to this paper.
Here is another excerpt:
Christianity focuses on God, rather then self and Buddhism focuses on self, rather then God. Often times the difference between the two can be broken down into mere semantic differences, but it seems to me both religions might benefit from occasionally shifting their focus, Christians to self and Buddhists to God. By focusing on self you raise your awareness, enhance your compassion, and thus can more easily understand God and fulfill the will of God. Focusing on God enables one to step outside of oneself and, by viewing yourself objectively (instead of subjectively), lead one to become more in-tune with oneself and become more in tune with God's will. Different perspectives of the same thing can lead to fuller understandings. In understanding the game of football, it might help to view the game from the perspective of both a player (self) and a coach (God).
Randomness is a well defined concept. The problem is that one literally can never tell if a deterministic pattern won't someday be identified in some observed phenomena that currently seem random, like radioactive decay.
So, we can define random mathematically, but the most we can say about observations is that they seem random.
I believe the only escape from hell or reincarnation, or karma, the outer darkness, the absense of God, or whatever one wishes to call it is true inner repentance, and the mercy of God. Mercy is the escape of karma.
I believe that God is within, and so is heaven. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is at hand. He compared it to a mustard seed, which is the smallest of seeds, but if planted would grow into the largest tree where all the birds would nest in. He compared it to yeast in bread, where a little spread through the whole thing. Many say Jesus was God, but Jesus never said this. He called himself the son of man, and he was referred to as the word of God made flesh, but never as God. He said why do you call me good, when there is only one that is good? The father in heaven. God is love, and heaven is within you. God will rule the earth when love destroys selfishness (the devil). Spread the seeds of love unto the brotherhood of man. The entire universe is reflected in the smallest atom.
You should know more about Buddhism before defining what it says. It is actually much stricter in discipline than Christianity. Christianity allows for much more freedom. I love the Bible verses you refer to. To look upon another mans wife with lust is the same as committing adultery. To hate someone is the same as murder. It all comes to the concept of what you do unto others you do unto God. He says, "what you do to the least of these, you do unto me." When did we see you naked to clothe you, or in prison to visit you, or hungry to feed you, or sick to take care of youlord? When you did not do these things to least of your brothers, you did not do them unto me. God is within each and every one of us. God is love.
Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Mathew 19:17
What you do unto the least of my brethren you do unto me. Mathew 25:40
thanks for those quotes. They represent exactly what I was looking for to work in.
What do you think about when the disciples were with him walking down the mountain after the configuration and said, "lord, we thought that Elijah was to appear before the messiah was to come. And Jesus said, " Elijah will come, and Elijah has already come, and he was not recognized, and they had their way with him. Immediately they understood that he spoke of John the Baptist.
Just wondered what you thought of that verse. Don't know exactly where it is.
Can you tell me what I said to Travis (in post 87) is wrong, regarding subjective morality and a lack of objective judgment?
I too believe God is love, and that only a loving God would discipline you on earth and give you the justice you deserve, on both ends.
Well concerning subjective morality and objective judgement, I believe morality is measured by the law of God called karma. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Buddah teaches the same philosophy. The God within you judges you. You will be judged as you judge others, and whatever you do unto others you do unto God. I believe it is the same God in all of us, so I think the same basic morality is within all. I think God is within even the unsaved, they just have to seek within and find God, accept God, and follow the path of love. I have nothing against Buddha and will not judge him to hell. Judge yourself first. I personally think the message is more important than the messenger. I don't think it is enough to believe in Christ, I think the important thing is to follow his teachings and his example.
From a practical point of view radioactive decay is totally random, but that’s only because we lack the tools to get inside to see exactly what's going on. That may not ever change for us humans, but I wouldn't bet against it. Scientific discovery is all about de-randomizing mysterious things and is based on the assumption that nothing is really random, just currently not understood.
You don't know that. It may be, as I said in my previous post, that we just haven't identified an underlying deterministic process, but it also may be that it truly is a random process. If the conventional quantum theory is correct, then then the natural process TRULY is random.
That may not ever change for us humans, but I wouldn't bet against it. Scientific discovery is all about de-randomizing mysterious things and is based on the assumption that nothing is really random, just currently not understood.
Just because we apply random models to processes that we know we don't understand, or to simplify complicated processes, do not let that make you believe that "random" is the same as "not understood".
Again, that is subjective morality. Some people can beat up others because they like the fight (like I know many fellow Marines do). Therefore fighting is ok as long as you are willing to accept the physical consequences.
Jesus Christ said 'do unto others' as He was surrounded by Believers. In context, He meant treat them as you know God wants and how you were treated by God/His disciples before you found Christ. He does not mean accomodate different desires if they are not holy.
There is a basic human morality and, according to evolutionary psychology (by far the most scientific, objective psych lens), that morality is selfishness and hedonism.
If you don't mind, I will repeat an analogy I convey to Travis:
Buddhism, as I know it, has the user define what is right and wrong. That is easy. "I won't think sexual thoughts between 2-3pm AND I won't have sex with more than 2 women at a time!"
I remember when I was young and very self-centered--I thought everything I did was right because I was so superior to everyone else. By Buddhisms standards, the Borg of Star Trek are right in destroying whole cultures to elevate them and absolve them of their petty choics.
In summary, the whole premise of Buddhism is that there is a basic, dignified human morality. There is, but it is not dignified.
Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
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The interesting part of that is 'elijah is coming first'. I don't know what he means cuz the next sentence contradicts it. I dunno.. I remember reading that quote before and being puzzled by it...
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