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To: Valin; kosta50

As for atheists and agnostics, who cares!

God does.
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If God is undefined/unknowable etc..., as many people in this thread seem to agree, then how can we believe those who deny a belief in God if they don't know what it is they don't believe in? This is another excerpt:

But perhaps 'the Universe', as undefined by the Buddhists is 'God', as undefined by the Christian/Jewish/Islamic faiths? How can really we know? Both sides don't define what 'God' or the 'Universe' is besides to say they are indefinable!

Continuing this line of thinking, how can even atheists rationally deny a belief in God? Let's say an atheist states he only believes in Good, not in God. Well, does God come from Good or does good come from God? If Good comes from God then this can only mean that there is no such thing as an objective Good, it's merely defined by God's whim. If God comes from Good then it lowers the power of God because Good can exist without Him. Spending too long on this puzzle can soon result in brain rot, as there seems to be no solution available that satisfies the appetite of reason. The unknown nature of God, and perhaps to a lesser extent the unknown nature of Good, combine to artificially create a fallacious intellectual quagmire.


63 posted on 01/24/2005 7:28:06 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/blackconservatism.htm)
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To: traviskicks

I would say that God is the universe, or the intelligent force through out it. God is within all. God is the I Am. The alpha and omega.


69 posted on 01/24/2005 7:48:09 AM PST by Jay777 (Never met a wise man, if so it's a woman. Kurt Cobain)
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To: traviskicks; Valin
This is precisely the kind of rationalization that I was criticizing in my first post. It's not theology -- it's rationalism. And it is a fallacy.

In the West, the belief that man can solve and understand any problem (the so-called Age of Reason) is the epitome of pride and arrogance -- in other words sin.

God is known to us through His energies (manifestations), but the essence of God is not only unknown but unknowable because we are not one and the same: God is uncreated; everything else is created.

We don't see gravity, yet we know it exists and we know it because things fall on earth, planets have moons, suns have planets, etc. Do we understand gravity? Not at all! And yet it is here. We have no clue as to why gravity exists! We simply say, it is a "property" of mass.

But gravity is part of the created world. How do we know it is created? Because it is structured. When you see a house -- do you doubt that it was designed and built by someone? Or do you think it just appeared? When you see beautiful gardens, do you think they just grew there? But when you see organized Universe, some think it just appeared!

As for out abilities, we are nowhere. With all our great strides in science and technology, we cannot make an ant; we cannot make it see and sense; reporduce and live. It's like comparing a Leggo car with a Ferrari.

The tool cannot know its maker, although the Maker's energies are manifested in the tool. God made us in His image by giving us a mind, a word and a spirit. No other lving creature has that. With these we understand and experience God's Wisdom, Word and Spirit. Love, mercy and justice are not concepts we find in "Nature". They are not physical and they exist apart from our physical self. Reason cannot penetrate them, define them; they have no shape, no time limit, not restrained by space, yet we "know" what they are -- vaguely perhaps -- but even a child knows them. Even an animal knows what feels good.

So, trying to figure out God is a hopless approach that, as you said, ends up in brain rot. God can be approached in spirit. If you don't believe, it is because of pride and arrogance -- veiled with reason or agnostic non-commitment. Such is our nature, for some even use religion to justify their pride and arrogance. Most people accept God conditionally -- "if I go to church then God should save me" or "If I am good then I deserve to go to heaven." And when they don't get what they want or if we lose someone -- we turn on God. God is good only as long as we get what we ask for. No one ever thinks that life is not guaranteed and that all who are born will die, the question is not if but only when, and the time is not ours to determine. The fact is, we have no right to life. No one will keep his or hers. Not one, no matter how deserving or how undeserving, how rich and how poor. Life is a loan that everyone has to repay. How many truly accept the words "Thy will be done" in complete peace?

78 posted on 01/24/2005 4:31:42 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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