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To: traviskicks

Thank you for your summary.

Do you believe Pinker?

1--In some situations, yes I do. But who says simplicity of thought is a good thing? I say the harder the language (without being too lofty), the more concentration and effort it takes, and therefore the more mental exersize you get.

2--Also, I find ebonic de-values very appropriate, specialized words that are extremely efficient at conveying specific meaning.

So in the end, I find Pinker's argument, which you appropriately summarized, to be only marginally correct and, I suspect, motivated by other means that true science. This conclusion is not true if he raised the same arguments I did in 1 & 2.

Thank you for your insight and, if you wish, I look forward to your take on it.


73 posted on 01/24/2005 9:10:08 AM PST by jdhighness
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To: jdhighness

hmm... You sum up my feelings pretty well with Pinker. I'm not sure - it is what it is. I think it is an interesting way to view it, but that yes, despite the innate problems with human expression, more is better then less. I am not neccesarily sure if Ebonics type language is always in conflict with this or not.

Of course, I think I agree with Pinker over the 'holded' and 'held' idea - needless complication that doesn't convey any more accurate meaning.

You state the following:
"I would attempt to maximize my pleasure here on earth, even at other people's expense."

I think such actions would bring you the exact opposite of what you desire - here on earth.
This is another excerpt:


In cases where an individual chooses not to follow God's will the situation can turn tragic. Struggling against the will of God is most difficult because everything around them is likely moving with God, while he/she stands alone. In the name of short term pleasure, sadistic delight, or the thrill of a power trip, this individual will spiral down into a well of rage, hate, malice, and insanity. Near their end, it is reported that Hitler and Stalin suffered severe psychological breakdown and bouts of depression, anxieties, and nervous ticks. (43), (44) Henry XVIII, Nero, Hermann Goering, Saddam Hussein, Uday Hussein, Ali Hassan al-Majid (Chemical Ali), Charles Mason, and Pol Pot have all been described as, delusional, raging, depressed, and mad. (45), (46) Indeed, all evil men (and women) eventually destroy themselves. Yet, many will kindle a fire and consume themselves. (Isaiah 26:11) What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean'. For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance, and folly. All of these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean'. (Mark 7:7) Those unrelentingly cruel ones, objects of compassion, Maddened by delusion's evils, wantonly destroy themselves and others. (47) (Tenzin Gyatso) We have great compassion for them, because they do not know the truth. They destroy Buddhism-they destroy themselves. (48) (Maha Ghosananda)

Or, perhaps it is better said that they chose to be destroyed by God?

They encourage wickedness in an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them? They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep. But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded. So they shall make their own tongue to fall upon wickedness: all that see them shall flee away. (Psalms 51-75)

Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness. Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. Psalms (51-75)

What do heaven and hell really represent? They are said not to be physical substances and not be present on Earth. We have established that Consciousness shares these qualities. It is clear that good compassionate deeds bring forth their own reward and evil deeds sow their own pain and misery. Perhaps Heaven and Hell, as defined as such, are being experienced in real time. In thinking about our true fate after death we must abandon rationality and work off faith.


75 posted on 01/24/2005 9:46:24 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/blackconservatism.htm)
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