Does Science Point to God? Part II: The Christian Critics

Crisis Magazine ^ | Benjamin D. Wiker

[jwalsh07]

Don't we all. There is no doubt but that God placed in his creation the ability to adapt and change according to cahnges in the environment. If you want to call that evolution then we all believe in evolution.

Right, so where's the argument? Evolution is defined simply as a change in allele frequency over time. The moth satisfies it. It doesn't mean any more than that.

But we tread on dangerous theological ground when we deny that man is a special creation. It is clear to me that if man is not a special and independent creation, then man is no more responsible to God for his sins than the dog who bites a child. Hence the power of the Gospel is dissolved. There is no such thing as a sin against God and hence there is no need for a Savior.

Sorry, I don't follow your logic. Jesus Christ and his Kingdom is the Gospel. How God created man is of little relevance to me in all honesty. That be breathed "life" into man and sent his Son to preach the Good News is all that matters.

Why is a being descended from apes responsible to God whereas the ape is not?

It's all about the "soul" P-Marlowe. That's what I believe and will believe when I take my last breath.

[jwalsh07]

Xzins, you're preaching to the choir.

What's more I think I know a bit more about Catholic teachings and dogma than you do, after all I've been a Catholic for 53 years. :-}

But Pope John Paul II wasn't breaking new ground. Over 50 years ago Pope Pius spoke of evolution in Humani Generis.

I think you're wrong here just like I think the Neo-Darwinists are wrong.

Genesis is the word of God. It tells us what God did, not how He did it. I can live with that.

[js1138]

Evolution is defined simply as a change in allele frequency over time.

This is a common definition, and I've seen evo FReepers quote it, but it isn't everything. There are mutations, insertions, chromosome changes, and many other kinds of change to the genome.

The phrase "change in allele frequency" suggests that all possible alleles are always present in a population, and they merely get shuffled around.

[conservlib]

Do you really know for sure that there is a thing called Satan? If God is so powerful, why don't he kill Satan?

[jwalsh07]

All of those change allele frequency over time, not all allele frequency changes over time are caused by only one of those mechanisms.

But I'm easy, you tell me what the definition of evolution is.

[Just mythoughts]

If God is so powerful, why don't he kill Satan?"

Oh haven't you read, Satan is the only named entity that has been given the 'death' sentence. A few more 'days with the Lord' yet to pass before that sentence will be carried out.

[conservlib]

According to religion, there will be a lion with three heads that spits fire or something like that. Science actual explains that; it is an environmental effects that causes the lion to deform to a three headed monster? I guess.

[js1138]

All I'm saying is I don't see how you can change the frequency of something that doesn't exist. Some changes produce new genes. That has to have happened if common descent is true.

[P-Marlowe]

It's all about the "soul" P-Marlowe. That's what I believe and will believe when I take my last breath.

And what do you say to those who claim that the evidence proves that man's "soul" is a product not of divine creation, but of natural evolution?

[jwalsh07]

I generally tell them to kiss my arse.

Sorry, I know I'm a sinner, but sometimes I can't help myself.

[conservlib]

Actually I was talking with a British lady yesterday about them driving on the left side of the road, and why can't they get it and be like us? It has never occurred to me why can't we start driving on the left like them! That is life! I am correct, and want to convince the world of my ways.

[jwalsh07]

All I'm saying is I don't see how you can change the frequency of something that doesn't exist.

Yeah, that is a conundrum. :-}

Some changes produce new genes. That has to have happened if common descent is true.

I should think so.

[P-Marlowe]

I generally tell them to kiss my arse.

And that is basically what I say when people try to tell me that man's body is not a product of special creation but of natural evolution.

They can kiss my "specially created" arse. :-)

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. (Psalms 139:14-16 KJV)

[jwalsh07]

They drive on the left because they are socialist. We drive on the right because, comparatively speaking, we are conservatives.

Pretty simple, no?

[Prophet in the wilderness]

And when science comes to it's end,
GOD will be there saying
" Here I am , I have tried to tell you that all along, but you wouldn't listen "

[jwalsh07]

LOL, very funny.

[conservlib]

Actually there is no absolute truth except science that is repeatable. divide ten by two and you will always get 5, regardless who dies it, or when it is done. Mix oxygen with hydrogen, and you will get water, all the times. Facts as told by eye witness cannot be considered truth, there can be bias, there can be different things that appeared or interpreted to yield the story of the eye witness.

[P-Marlowe]

Who knows, perhaps my arse was specially made for the sole purpose of having some evolutionist kiss it for all eternity.

[P-Marlowe]

Actually there is no absolute truth except science... Mix oxygen with hydrogen, and you will get water, all the times.

Not true, you mix it just a little bit differently and you end up with hydrogen peroxide. Nasty stuff.

BTW Jesus is the way the TRUTH and the life. If Jesus says that there was a Noah and an Ark, you can take it to the bank. If Jesus said there was a Jonah and a Whale and that Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, then you can take it to the bank.... Unless of course Jesus was NOT the Truth. In which case you can take your Christianity out with the garbage.

I put my trust in Jesus. Hence I believe there was a Noah and an Ark and a Jonah and a whale.

[conservlib]

I have a nuclear physics degree, but I have no way of thinking how this whole world got to being. There are too many galaxies, and stars, and perhaps civilizations on many other planets? Was all that created by the carpenter of Nazareth?

As I reflect on all the major religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism; all three religions more or less state similar stories, and traditions that all comes from one single common root in the Pharaohs of Egypt. Having said before that the universe is so huge, that leaves me to think that this one god had no knowledge of any other place on this planet except the Middle East, not to even mention other planets or galaxies?