Does Science Point to God? Part II: The Christian Critics

Crisis Magazine ^ | Benjamin D. Wiker

[AndrewC]

I can't do it with your preconditions.

I have no preconditions. I just wanted to give you what I considered a head start. Refuse it if you like, but then don't throw analogies back at me as an answer. Produce life.

[general_re]

I have no preconditions. I just wanted to give you what I considered a head start.

Riiiiight.

[js1138]

I'm not invoking mystical forces. I'm asking you to make an automobile, Ford, Chevy, whatever.

Neither you nor I nor any living person could make an automobile from raw materials without a vast infrastructure of supporting tools and equipment. But the history of the automobile is evolutionary, and that vast infrastructure arose through an iterative learning process. Biological evolution is also an iterative learning process. The activities of replicating organisms changes the environment in which future generations live.

If all the factories were destroyed, and all the history wiped from homes and libraries, it would be extremely difficult to reconstruct the history of the automobile, but it would be safe to assume that no one designed a Lexus from first principles.

[js1138]

Interesting. Some scientists claim that any trip from chemistry to the first cell is a more tortuous one than from that first cell to modern humans.

It's certainly more difficult to reconstruct a history when all you have are are the final products. Without books and people's memories, could you write a history of your home town -- using only the structures as evidence?

[js1138]

It has occurred to me that I probably couldn't make an automobile even if supplied with all the finished parts. (I know this because I have attempted to repair lawn mower engines.)

Therefore automobiles are the result of divine intervention. QED.

[general_re]

Well, why stop with building things? Shouldn't we assume that anything that I can't personally do is the result of divine intervention? For example, I was on the Metro a few weeks ago, and I was reading a paper that someone had left on the train, when I noticed that this someone had done the entire Sunday Times crossword puzzle. In pen. With no errors. I certainly can't do that. I don't know anyone who can do that. The conclusion is, I think, obvious: God rides the Orange line.

[AndrewC]

but it would be safe to assume that no one designed a Lexus from first principles.

No, but it is reasonable to assume that you can take apart a Lexus down to nuts and bolts and, out of the parts, build something that moves.

[AndrewC]

Therefore automobiles are the result of divine intervention. QED.

Bad logic. We see automobiles constructed without divine intervention. We don't see life coming from only non-life. Big difference.

[js1138]

And we see automobiles coming from factories that were built to build automobiles. The automobiles, factories, parts suppliers, parts factories, raw materials suppliers, finance companies -- all evolved together.

In the absense of books, memories, and other records, you could not possibly reconstruct the history of the automobile from samples of current models.

It is likely that we will never reconstruct the origin of life, but we can search for a possible history, one that works with natural processes and does not require design, other than the regular properties of the material universe. If that is designed, so be it.

[jwalsh07]

I think you missed the point. The point I was making was the appearence of cellular life in an incredibly short amount of time without the advantages of selction, heritability and mutation. But I'd be happy to talk history with you if you'd like.

[AndrewC]

If that is designed, so be it.

Well, now, that is a good start.