Sifting the Wheat from the Tares: 20 Signs of Trouble in a New Religious Group

CatholicExchange.com ^ | 03-01-05 | Pete Vere, JCL

[Romulus]

I also find it hard to understand how the Neo-Catechumenate gets away with its activities

They put butts in pews, and that lowest commen denominator of success is enough for a lot of desperate manager-bishops driven by process and statistics, ready to embrace any novelty so long as it claims a Catholic identity. The neo-cats' have a creepy emphasis on exclusivity and control.

[Ciexyz]

I don't understand most of what is mentioned in this thread. I do remember hearing complimentary comments over the years about Steubenville since it's in this general geographic area (just over the border in Ohio).

[Tantumergo]

"The neo-cats' have a creepy emphasis on exclusivity and control."

I also heard that at one of their jamborees in Rome, their founder - Kiko Arguello - derided the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament!!

But, as you say, if they give the image of numerical success then they receive official encouragement - even if its thousands of material heretics that they are turning out.

[COBOL2Java]

Of course, if a Lay Catholic is looking for an organization to join, one can consider the Lay Carmelites. Been around for over 500 years - no "Spring Chickens" are we! :-)

[Bigg Red]

The priests I knew growing up who had been educated and ordained BEFORE Vatican II seemed better to me both in terms of their education and their spirituality.

&&

My experience, as well. Those days were great.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Take your pick at what explains the changes or...ahem..decline. Stronger families, better institutions, higher standards, different cultural and moral climate, or maybe just a more coherent basic understanding of Catholicism? Whatever theological position one wants to take on the various bureaucratic documents, the atmosphere after the council opened the doors for liberals and others to take advantage of a situation of widespread confusion. Add to that the counter-cultural changes in American society and there was a very potent formula for deconstructing the Catholic Church and the Catholic faith. We are still stuck in the impasse brought on by that. And paying heavily for it - in spades.

[Land of the Irish]

"I also heard that at one of their jamborees in Rome, their founder - Kiko Arguello - derided the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament!! "


http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2000/features_feb00_1.html

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/catech.htm

[Domestic Church]

When St. Francis of Assisi was called to start his order I suspect he would have failed this criteria and it took a Papal dream to grease the wheel back then...and I also wonder how St. Dominic would have fared. The Church has problems as serious as those of that time period. I raised both eyebrows when the first red flag is given to total obedience to the Pope. Right off the bat that smacks of an agenda.

Esperanza, before the scandals erupted, said something about Jesus coming to shepherd His flock. At the time it felt soothing to read her words but now I read between them as He is clearly coming due to the failure of the appointed shepherds.

[Domestic Church]

Regnum Christi through TORCH leadership has tried to control the Catholic Homeschooling movement.

[donbosco74]

http://www.odyssey.on.ca/~paul.buis/frpius/neo.html

check it out!!

[Bigg Red]

I can't add anything to your summary.

Where will it end, I wonder. Perhaps out of these trials the church will emerge stronger. One can only hope ... and pray ... that a true reformation is upon us.

[GratianGasparri]

I raised both eyebrows when the first red flag is given to total obedience to the Pope. Right off the bat that smacks of an agenda.

The total obedience was in quotation marks and carefully explained as partial obedience to select teachings. Given that the author is one of biggest defenders of the papacy within the traditionalist movement and often finds himself at odds with the rest of the traditionalist movement because of his outspoken loyalty to Rome, I doubt that he is setting the agenda you imply.

Rather, I suspect that this has something to do with his battles against false visionaries. In fact, he mentioned elsewhere that he was thinking of Mary Paul and her Army of Mary when he wrote point #1. If I recally correctly, this woman claimed to be the second Blessed Mother, and I think she may also have worn the Blessed Sacrament around her neck.

Regardless, she often hid behind "total obedience to the Holy Father" to keep her followers in line when local Church authorities began cracking down. Eventually, the Church would suppress her society and Cardinal Ratzinger and the CDF would condemn her theology.

Since then, the author has been asked to share his opinion concerning a number of other false visionaries who claimed "total obedience" to the Holy Father.

[GratianGasparri]

When St. Francis of Assisi was called to start his order I suspect he would have failed this criteria and it took a Papal dream to grease the wheel back then...and I also wonder how St. Dominic would have fared.

Each of these saints would have fared well, because each of these saints joyfully submitted when the Church tempered their zeal and focused them away from those warning signs that might be present.

[Diva]

I think there is a lot that is good at Steubenville. The Charismatic thing has been a problem at times. I don't think being a Charismatic has to be a problem but it can turn into one when you consider yourself extra special because you can speak in tongues and see visions. St. John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila warned not to seek these consolations because the opportunity for deception is great.

[Diva]

Yeah, lots of people have tried to control the homeschooling movement. : ) Haven't seen any succeed yet but, I'm intrigued by what you say. I know there was concern here in Michigan a few years ago that there were some trying to influence the diocese to clamp down on the Sacraments for homeschoolers. Could you tell me more about TORCH. I am familiar with Regnum Christi and have been concerned about some of their activities, or at least the way they "control" young women on pilgrimages.

[Siobhan]

On a good day, Kiko Argüello is a protestant.

[Tantumergo]

Bit hard on protestants don't you think, Siobhan?

;)