Did They Love You, Pope John Paul II?

The Remnant ^ | 9th April 2005 | Christopher Ferrara

[Grey Ghost II]

The Remnant is the organ of the "We resist you to your face" movment: a perpetually angry, rag-tag crowd of malcontents.

Correction:

Your little rag, NCR is the organ of the "We resist you to your face" movement: a perpetually angry, rag-tag crowd of malcontents.

[nonsumdignus]

OK. Ferrara's a prevaricator. He said there were no women, or lay readers at JPII's funeral.

Actually, the article was specific to his procession:

Every word of the liturgical text for the procession of the Pope’s body into St. Peter’s was intoned in Latin, every vestment was of the most dignified traditional design, and there was not a woman, lay reader or guitar in sight.

And not in reference to the funeral Mass. Regardless, this was one tiny speck of his argument. Why don't you address the substance of it with some reasoned opinion. I hope I'm not asking too much from you.

[sinkspur]

Actually, the article was specific to his procession:

Nice try. You and I both that's nonsense.

[Salvation]

The starting point is not God’s anger but God’s love, which we learn from Jesus who said: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.” (Jn 3:16)

[Tantumergo]

Thanks for posting this - there is some insightful analysis here among the usual Ferrara hyperbole.

Particularly he is correct to point out the reaction of the world leaders and media to JPII following his death. They have been very laudatory, but when one looks at the object of their praise it is clear they have totally missed the point. They worship his worldly qualities rather than honouring the consistent stand he took against their culture of death.

The MSM will begin to tear him apart for his "reactionary conservatism" over the next few days, when in reality, his holding the line against abortion, contraception, homosexuality, divorce and euthansia was his main achievement considering the pressure both within and without the Church for him to yield.

[bornacatholic]

Prove Ferrara is: a) a schismatic b) a sedevacantist c) associated with the SSPX

Prove from my post I even used those words.

[bornacatholic]

LOL touche

[bornacatholic]

The Catholic’s first instinct is to observe the death of a Pope with silence and prayer, reserving until the appropriate time any sort of analysis of the relative merits and demerits of the just-concluded pontificate. Such analysis is inevitable with every Pope’s passing. But the mass media are not going to allow us the usual period of circumspection,

< I stand corrected. Ferrara isn't responsible. The Mass Media made him attack the Pope and abandon "circumspection."

Typical liberal. Blaming others for his failings.

[Grey Ghost II]

Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.
Matthew 10:34

[Wessex]

"It's almost humorous how ostrich-like many treat any criticism of the previous pontiff immediately by branding it as "protestant", "schismatic", "hateful", "nuts", without even as much discussing the objective merits of the argument presented."


It seems that many on here will fight to the death to preserve the myths surrounding JPII. Hopefully, his life will now be realistically and dispassionately compared with the long line of his predecessors and not be isolated from them as though he were a man apart. The election of a new pope should deflect the minds of those who are into personality cults and allow JPII to rest more easily.

[Wessex]

"The MSM will begin to tear him apart for his "reactionary conservatism" over the next few days, when in reality, his holding the line against abortion, contraception, homosexuality, divorce and euthansia was his main achievement considering the pressure both within and without the Church for him to yield."

More alarming is the fact that senior prelates including those in the UK have for years been pushing for compromises on these issues. They too when praising JPII tend to concentrate on his personality and political initiatives.

[murphE]

Be aware that Ferrara is a nutball

Oh let's hear it for that Christian charity. How does talk like that fit into your "civilization of love" you're trying to build?

[murphE]

but doesn't our History recall that many people were raised to Sainthood shortly following their death, and mainly because of a similar type of popularity?

Oh it's going beyond just wanting to make him a saint. Here's a quote from another article:

Hundreds of messages of thanks and remembrance were posted Sunday on "Karol the Great," an Italian Web site set up in tribute to John Paul. The pope's given name was Karol Wojtyla, and references to "John Paul the Great" have gained steam amid a growing movement to make him a saint.

"Bye, Pope John Paul, you will always be the greatest, even in heaven," read one.

SOURCE

[murphE]

bump and ping

From the article:

Here we see most clearly what was pointed out earlier: That certain Catholics are assisting world opinion in the use of one Pope to undermine respect for all the others. How pleased Arroyo was to elevate John Paul II as “the people’s pope” at the expense of all his predecessors, whom he suggested were vainglorious royalists and popinjays partial to red tassels. This is neo-Catholic hubris at its height: the Church of today is so much more enlightened than the medieval kingdom of forty years ago."

[murphE]

This is a hateful piece of trash

What is hateful in it? Did he call anyone a "nutball"?

using the Pope to further their own unorthodox ideas.

Please elaborate on all of the "unorthodox" ideas you know Mr. Ferrara to hold and include the documentation to support it.

[murphE]

apparently many world leaders did love Pope John Paul II --

That was actually one of the points of the article:

If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you. If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 15.18-19

I do believe this writer (and some of you) are in the minority here

This is the second time I've noticed you pointing out an opinion which differs from your own as being in the "minority", as if to imply that minority voices should be silenced, and that a majority vote determines truth, but we know as Catholics that truth is not determined by majority vote. There's an old saying, I forget who it is attributed to, "sometimes a majority just means that all the fools are on the same side."

[Wessex]

"This is neo-Catholic hubris at its height: the Church of today is so much more enlightened than the medieval kingdom of forty years ago."


The neo-Catholics now have their icon and this mood will develop unabated unless the next pope swiftly squashes this hysterical movement. He may of course be a reformer and push the Vatican II revolution further, in which case the neo-Catholics will become the new traditionalists in the image of JPII!

[murphE]

Here's an interesting poll:

Based on a recent poll, U.S. Catholics would seem to favor a less conservative successor to Pope John Paul II.

Would you find it acceptable or unacceptable if the College of Cardinals chose the next pope from one of the following areas?

Latin America 85% Acceptable 12% Unacceptable

Africa 80% Acceptable 17% Unacceptable

Asia 78% Acceptable 19% Unacceptable

Do you think the next pope should or should not . . .

Allow Catholics to use birth control 78% Should 21% Should not

Allow priests to marry 63% Should 36% Should not

Make church doctrine on stem cell research less strict 59% Should 36% Should not

Allow women to become priests 55% should 44% should not

Allow Catholics to divorce, remarry without an annulment 49% should 48% should not

Make church doctrine on annulment less strict 37% should 59% should not

CNN/USA Today/Gallup telephone survey of 254 U.S. Catholic adults conducted April 1-2; margin of error 7 percentage points. No-opinion responses not listed.

SOURCE

So much for the majority opinion.

[marshmallow]

Let me just make a little note about this in the margin. OK, "Christopher Ferrara (who?) is not happy with JPII's papacy." There.

OK.

It's right there, on the first page.

I'll see it every time I read JPII's writings or reflect on his life or indeed pray for his intercession. It will surely make me pause and think "careful now..........".

[donbosco74]

ping