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(LIVE THREAD) The Papal Conclave, Interregnum, Cardinals, Conclave Facts, Prayer and other links
EWTN.com ^ | 04-16-05 | EWTN.com

Posted on 04/16/2005 9:08:24 PM PDT by Salvation

Prayer for the Election of a Pope - Lord God, you are our eternal shepherd and guide. In your mercy grant your Church a shepherd who will walk in your ways and whose watchful care will bring us your blessing. We ask this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen. (Collect, Mass for the Election of a Pope, Roman Missal)


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KEYWORDS: benedict; benedictxvi; cardinals; interregnum; nextpope; papalconclave; pope; ratzinger; vatican
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1 posted on 04/16/2005 9:08:26 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Salvation
Prayer for the Election of a Pope
Lord God, you are our eternal shepherd and guide.
In your mercy grant your Church a shepherd who will walk in your ways
and whose watchful care will bring us your blessing.
We ask this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
Amen.

2 posted on 04/16/2005 9:10:52 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
Papal Conclave


3 posted on 04/16/2005 9:12:19 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All

 

 


 

THE SUPREME PONTIFF   THE COLLEGE OF CARDINALS   THE ROMAN CURIA   PAPAL INTERREGNUM

4 posted on 04/16/2005 9:13:33 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
Papal Interregnum


 

The Vacancy of the Holy See
(Papal Interregnum)

The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of  St. Peter, save the election of his successor.


 

5 posted on 04/16/2005 9:17:08 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
The College of Cardinals


 

The College of Cardinals

The College exists to advise the Pope in the governance of the Catholic Church and to elect his successor should he die or resign. Its members consist of officials of the Roman Curia, archbishops of major sees from around the world, and others chosen at the pleasure of the Pope.


Pope John Paul II has honored priests who are theologians, such as Henri De Lubac, S.J. and Avery Dulles, S.J. without requiring them to be ordained bishops, as is required by law.

Once named, a Cardinal holds the office for life. However, on his eightieth birthday he loses the privilege of voting in the Conclave to elect a Pope. He could still be elected.

   Members of the College 

   Cardinal Electors


6 posted on 04/16/2005 9:18:44 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All

 

Interesting Facts 

Bishop of Ostia's role - Pope Mark (336) decided that the Bishop of Ostia, the port-city of Rome,  should consecrate Popes.  At this period in history, the electee was either a deacon or a priest of Rome, and so consecration to the episcopacy inaugurated his papacy. Today, the Cardinal Bishop of Ostia is the Dean of the College of Cardinals and retains the right to consecrate the Pope if he is not already a bishop.

Bishop Electees - Prior to the election of Marinus I in 882, the Popes had been chosen from among priests and deacons. Upon consecration to the episcopacy they became capable of being Pope and were, therefore, in that moment of consecration made both bishop and Pope. Bishops were not chosen because they were considered wedded to their diocese, and so the transference of a bishop from one diocese to another was considered uncanonical. Marino was already a bishop, however, so instead of being consecrated he was enthroned. After this time the practice of electing bishops occurred more and more frequently, so that it has become the norm. Since a bishop is already capable of being Pope, the electee becomes Pope in the moment of his acceptance of his election.

Counting Popes -  In 752 the man elected to succeed Pope Zachary took the name Stephen II. However, since he died before being officially consecrated, by the canon law of the day he was not considered the Pope yet. Soon thereafter, a different Stephen took the name Stephen II . Almost a thousand years later the official numbering was changed. The short-lived Stephen II is still NOT listed among the Popes, but his name is accounted for by the renumbering of the listed Stephens, so that the official Stephen II is now Stephen II (III). This numbering change in the official list was applied to all the Stephens, down to Stephen IX (X) in 1057. However, since there have been no new Stephens since the renumbering, no Pope has had to decide which number of Stephen to take next.

Eastern Catholic Popes - A number of Eastern Catholics of Greek or Syrian origin have been elected Pope. The last Pope to be from the East, however, was Pope Zachary (741-52).

Election Reforms - Over the centuries the Popes instituted various election reforms aimed at limiting or removing the external influences of emperors, kings, Roman nobility and clerical factions, who sought to elect their candidate or demanded their consent for election validity. Many reforms did not last, of course, especially concerning the issue of "investiture" (secular princes requiring their consent for the election of bishops in their territory). However, the free process that the Church has come to take for granted is the result of the continual struggle to free the papacy from secular or  ecclesiastical electioneering. See also History of Papal Electoral Law

Papal Names - Most of the early Popes kept their own names upon election. However, when the Roman priest Mercury was elected in 533 he took the name John II, so the Church would not have a Pope named after a pagan god. Thus began the   practice of taking a new name which today is taken for granted.

Recent Conclaves - The record of recent Conclaves, the last 100 years, shows that the College elects a new Pope on average on the 3rd day in the afternoon, after about 8 ballots.

Pius X, 1903: 4 days, 7 ballots
Benedict XV, 1914: 3 days, 10 ballots
Pius XI, 1922: 5 days 14 ballots
Pius XII, 1939: 2 days, 3 ballots
John XXIII, 1958: 4 days, 11 ballots
Paul VI, 1963: 3 days, 6 ballots
John Paul I, 1978: 2 days, 4 ballots
John Paul II, 1978: 3 days, 8 ballots


 

Next: History of Papal Electoral Law
Back: Sistine Chapel

Interregnum Home


7 posted on 04/16/2005 9:23:17 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
Election Procedure


 

Voting Procedure

There are three phases to the election process. They are:

1) Pre-Scrutiny, during which ballots are prepared and distributed.

2) Scrutiny, during which the ballots are collected and counted.

3) Post-Scrutiny, during which the ballots are counted, checked and burned.

 

1. Pre-Scrutiny

During the Pre-Scrutiny the ballots are prepared and distributed, and, 9 Electors are chosen by lot to serve as 3 Scrutineers, 3 Infirmarii and 3 Revisers.

The Scrutineers are three Cardinal Electors chosen by lot to gather and count the ballots. They stand at the altar as the Electors come up individually to deposit their votes. One of them also collects the votes of those present who are not physically able to come up to the altar. Afterwards, sitting at a table in front of the altar they tabulate the ballots to determine if an election has occurred.

The Infirmarii are three Cardinal Electors chosen by lot to take ballots to Electors who although within the enclosure of the Conclave are too sick to be present in the Sistine Chapel. They take with them a locked box which, having been shown to the other Electors to be empty, receives the votes of the infirm. They return it unopened to the Scrutineers.

The Revisers are 3 Cardinal Electors chosen by lot to check the ballot count and the notes of the Scrutineers to determine if the tabulation of the ballots was carried out exactly and faithfully.

2. Scrutiny

After all ballots are in, including those brought from the sick by the Infirmarii, the 1st Scrutineer shakes the receptacle several times to mix the ballots. Then the 3rd Scrutineer counts them, placing them in a second, empty, receptacle. If the number of ballots does not equal the number of electors, they are burned, and a second vote taken immediately. Otherwise, the Scrutineers proceed to tabulate the vote.

Sitting at a table in front of the altar, the 1st Scrutineer silently reads the name on a ballot, passes it to the 2nd Scrutineer who does likewise, and then passes it to the 3rd Scrutineer, who reads the name aloud and then writes it down. Each Elector also writes it down on a sheet provided for this purpose. The ballot is then pierced with a needle through the word eligo (I elect) and placed on a thread for security.

When all ballots have been read the ends of the thread are tied in a knot and the ballots are placed in a receptacle on one end of the table.

3. Post-Scrutiny

The Scrutineers tabulate the vote count they recorded by individuals receiving votes. They do this on a separate sheet of paper from that on which the vote count was first made. The Revisers then verify the results.



8 posted on 04/16/2005 9:24:35 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All

I am trying to put all the facts in one place.

There has been coverage of the Papal Interregnum and Election Procedures and stuff about the Cardinals printed by the secular media.

But much of it has been in error, or to say the least, biased toward the liberal media's point of view.

This is strictly facts from a well known and respected Catholic site. There is too much here to post everything of interest, but hopefully I have hit the highlights.

If you wish to post anything else, please do so, or FReepmail me with the url and I will be glad to put it up.

Continue to pray for the Colllege of Cardinals.

May they submit totally to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Amen.


9 posted on 04/16/2005 9:29:05 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; goldenstategirl; Starmaker; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

10 posted on 04/16/2005 9:30:18 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thanks Salvation.

Bookmarking!


11 posted on 04/16/2005 9:32:07 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Holy Spirit, help our Cardinals elect a good and holy Pope.)
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To: GatorGirl

This should be a good thread to follow the Conclave on. Thanks for the bump.


12 posted on 04/16/2005 9:34:33 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thank you!


13 posted on 04/16/2005 9:38:56 PM PDT by sneakers
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To: Salvation

Thanks for putting this together.


14 posted on 04/16/2005 9:42:04 PM PDT by ConservativeLawyer
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To: ConservativeLawyer; sneakers

You're welcome. I've just seen so much mis-information out there I thought this was necessary. Still a lot of info there.


15 posted on 04/16/2005 10:00:19 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
What a Catholic Should Expect From the Conclave
16 posted on 04/17/2005 5:25:07 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

I conferred with the chaplain of our lay religious group about the prayers in the Liturgy of the Hours during the interregnum. If there is a prayer for the Pope, it is to be skipped. "We have no Pope right now," he told me. We needed this information because in our breviary for the Easter season, Tuesday evening prayer includes a prayer for the Holy Father.


17 posted on 04/17/2005 5:50:46 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (If this isn't the End Times it certainly is a reasonable facsimile...)
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To: Salvation

Great job! I'm tired of hearing network airheads drone on about this like it's a presidential election. They cannot fathom the spiritual aspects at all.


18 posted on 04/17/2005 6:26:30 AM PDT by NewCenturions
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To: Salvation

Yes, May the Holy Spirit give us a Good & Faithful servant!


19 posted on 04/17/2005 12:02:07 PM PDT by tiredoflaundry (If you want to have a good time, you have to have a good watch!)
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To: NewCenturions
You are so right. These "airheads" have no concept of the spiritual aspects.
20 posted on 04/17/2005 12:04:34 PM PDT by tiredoflaundry (If you want to have a good time, you have to have a good watch!)
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To: Salvation
Thanks for the PING...
Good job of posting and keeping us informed.

(\O/)
-/_\-

21 posted on 04/17/2005 12:44:39 PM PDT by Smartass (Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió)
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To: COBOL2Java

I think it is difficult for the priests because they are used to saying "our servant, Pope John Paul"

Our priest has been saying, "our servant, John our bishop" He just gets caught up in that habit.

You are totally correct. They can mention the Pope's name however when prayers for the dead are said during the Mass.


22 posted on 04/17/2005 1:18:30 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NewCenturions

**They cannot fathom the spiritual aspects at all.**

Yes, with 90% of the journalists in the U. S. not attending chruch of any kind!!!!! -- that was exactly the point made by our priest this morning.

Be careful that you are listening to the Shepherd's voice (Christ's voice) and not the voice of some biased reporter. He even used Ted Turner's quote about Catholics and Christians being weaklings and losers! It was a great homily!

What are we allowing our conscience to absorb? Or even hear? Do we sit down with our kids after watching a movie and talk about the Commandments that were broken in that movie?



23 posted on 04/17/2005 1:21:52 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tiredoflaundry; Smartass; NewCenturions

I appreciate your feedback -- continue to bump the thread during the conclave. I'm even thinking about asking the Admin Moderator to make it a LIVE THREAD. What do you think?


24 posted on 04/17/2005 1:23:32 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Yes, good idea. This way there will be 1 central thread for folks to post to. I'm sure a gazillion threads on the Conclave is going to pop up. Ask the Moderator to make 1 "official" thread.


25 posted on 04/17/2005 1:46:08 PM PDT by tiredoflaundry (If you want to have a good time, you have to have a good watch!)
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To: Salvation
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
26 posted on 04/17/2005 1:49:22 PM PDT by tiredoflaundry (Holy Spirit, It's in your hands. Amen)
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To: Salvation

It will work itself out.

From what I've discussed with others, most believe this will be an older person who will serve a short term.

I still keep my prayer simple: God PLEASE give us the Pope You feel we need!


27 posted on 04/17/2005 2:13:54 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Salvation
May they submit totally to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

AMEN - AMEN - AMEN AND AMEN!!!

I have a little seed of doubt, but it is small and I am praying and hoping the Holy Spirit will guide the conclave.

28 posted on 04/17/2005 6:08:17 PM PDT by Gerish (Choose God, he has already chosen you.)
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To: Salvation

Prayers offered up for the Papal conclave.


29 posted on 04/17/2005 7:19:09 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Salvation

Cool links on this site.


30 posted on 04/17/2005 7:24:12 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: tiredoflaundry
Monday Morning Mass in Rome -- THE FAITHFUL ARE INVITED TO MASS FOR START OF CONCLAVE

THE FAITHFUL ARE INVITED TO MASS FOR START OF CONCLAVE
 

VATICAN CITY,  (Zenit.org).- The Holy See invited all the faithful present in Rome to attend the Mass for the opening of the conclave.

The Mass will be celebrated in St. Peter's Basilica at 10 a.m. next Monday.

A note from the Office for the Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff today stated that the Mass "for the election of the Roman Pontiff" will be presided over by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, dean of the College of Cardinals, who also presided at John Paul II's funeral Mass.

"In order to show communion in prayer on the part of the entire Church at such an important moment, cardinal non-electors, bishops, priests, deacons, and members of institutes of consecrated life and societies of apostolic life are also earnestly invited to participate in the celebration, as are the lay faithful of all God's people present in Rome," added the note.

"The entire Church, spiritually united with Mary Mother of Jesus, and called to persevere unanimously in prayer following the example of the first Christian community, lifts humble and insistent prayers to the Lord, that He may illuminate the minds of the electors and bring them to agreement, in order to obtain a prompt and unanimous election of the new Pope," affirmed the note of the office, headed by Archbishop Piero Marini.

At 4.30 p.m. on Monday, the entry into conclave and the oath for the election of the new pope will take place, in keeping with the norms laid down by the "Ordo Rituum Conclavis."

The cardinal electors, preceded by a cross and the Book of the Gospels, and accompanied by the singing of the Litany of the Saints, will enter in procession from the Hall of Blessings to the Sistine Chapel where, after singing the "Veni Creator," they will pronounce the prescribed oath.

In addition to the cardinal electors, others participating in the procession include the secretary of the conclave, the master of liturgical celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff, the secretary of the cardinal dean, the ecclesiastic who will preach a meditation, the masters of ceremonies, the dean, and the Cappella Musicale Pontificia.

 

OFFICIAL OATH OF CONCLAVE ASSISTANTS

VATICAN CITY, APR 13, 2005 (VIS) - Today, the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff made it known that in the Hall of Blessings at 5 p.m. on Friday, April 15 officials and assistants of the conclave will be called to take their oath.

All those involved in the forthcoming conclave - both clergy and laity, as approved by the cardinal camerlengo and by the three cardinal assistants, and in keeping with the norms of para. 48 of the Apostolic Constitution 'Universi Domini gregis' - will have to swear and sign the prescribed oath. In accordance with para. 46 of Universi Dominici gregis, the following people must be in the Sala Regia at 4.30 p.m. on that day:

- The Secretary of the College of Cardinals.

- The master of the Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff.

- The masters of pontifical ceremonies.

- The religious who supervise the pontifical sacristy.

- The ecclesiastic chosen by the cardinal dean to help him in his duties.

- The religious charged with hearing confessions in the various languages.

- Doctors and nurses.

- The personnel for preparing meals and cleaning.

- Technical service personnel (Universi Dominici gregis, paras. 5 and 51).

- Personnel responsible for transporting the cardinal electors from the 'Domus Sanctae Marthae' to the Apostolic Palace.

- Elevator attendants at the Apostolic Palace.

- Priests admitted as assistants to some of the Cardinals.

After having been instructed on the meaning of the oath, they will have to pronounce and personally sign the prescribed formula before Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo, camerlengo of Holy Roman Church, and in the presence of two masters of pontifical ceremonies (Universi Dominici gregis, paras. 48).


31 posted on 04/17/2005 8:17:17 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
This is a great thread, and having one central LIVE thread throughout the conclave is a wonderful idea. Thank you so much for your hard work!

Prayers going up to the Holy Spirit for the Conclave....

32 posted on 04/17/2005 8:17:50 PM PDT by padfoot_lover
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To: Ciexyz

**Cool links on this site.**

Any you would like posted?


33 posted on 04/17/2005 8:18:05 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Religion Moderator; Admin Moderator; Sidebar Moderator

Could this be converted to a live thread by your adding the words (LIVE THREAD) on the beginning of it. Or does it have to be on the news forum?

Thanks in advance for your help.


34 posted on 04/17/2005 8:20:41 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
May they submit totally to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

"Come, Holy Ghost, God and Lord!"
by Martin Luther, 1483-1546

1. Come, Holy Ghost, God and Lord!
Be all Thy graces now out poured
On each believer's mind and heart;
Thy fervent love to them impart.
Lord, by the brightness of Thy light,
Thou in the faith dost men unite
Of every land and every tongue;
This to Thy praise, O Lord, our God, be sung.
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

2. Thou holy Light, Guide Divine,
Oh, cause the Word of Life to shine!
Teach us to know our God aright
And call Him Father with delight.
From every error keep us free;
Let none but Christ our Master be
That we in living faith abide,
In Him, our Lord, with all our might confide.
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

3. Thou holy Fire, Comfort true,
Grant us the will Thy work to do
And in Thy service to abide;
Let trials turn us not aside.
Lord, by Thy power prepare each heart
And to our weakness strength impart
That bravely here we may contend,
Through life and death to Thee, our Lord, ascend.
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

Hymn 224
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Acts 2: 4
Author: Martin Luther
Translated by: composite
Titled: "Komm, Heiliger Geist, Herre Gott"
Tune: "Komm, Heiliger Geist, Herre Gott"
http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/online/tlh-224.mid
15th-century melody

35 posted on 04/17/2005 8:21:59 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: padfoot_lover

Thanks PL.


36 posted on 04/17/2005 8:24:30 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Gerish

Must agree with your prayer all the way. However, we still need to be discerning on our part.


37 posted on 04/17/2005 8:25:17 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; goldenstategirl; Starmaker; ...
LIVE THREAD FOR THE CONCLAVE PING!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

38 posted on 04/17/2005 8:28:08 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Religion Moderator; Admin Moderator; Sidebar Moderator

Thanks! That was fast!


39 posted on 04/17/2005 8:29:16 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Any time :-)


40 posted on 04/17/2005 8:30:17 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator
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To: Salvation

Thanks,Salvatin for this thread. You sure are brave! I say that becauses there are a number of anti-Catholic posters on FR,sad to say. I'll try and respond as a good Catholic when provoked! Again, I say, I'll try.LOL!


41 posted on 04/17/2005 8:31:22 PM PDT by Lady In Blue ( President 'SEABISCUIT' AKA George W Bush)
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To: Salvation

Thank you"Salvation"time do come now be strong good friend!!!


42 posted on 04/17/2005 8:31:48 PM PDT by anonymoussierra ("Et iube me venire ad te, ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te in saecula saeculorum. Amen."Totus Tuus!!!!)
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: Lady In Blue

oops! "Salvatin" sorry about that Salvation!


44 posted on 04/17/2005 8:34:48 PM PDT by Lady In Blue ( President 'SEABISCUIT' AKA George W Bush)
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To: Lady In Blue

"becauses" = because. I guess it's time for me to go to bed!


45 posted on 04/17/2005 8:36:19 PM PDT by Lady In Blue ( President 'SEABISCUIT' AKA George W Bush)
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To: Salvation

Thanks Salvation,I know we have all been praying for the soul to stand in our beloved Holy Father's place and we look to Our Father with our eye on His will and pray to the Holy Spirit as we have done all week as people of prayer.


46 posted on 04/17/2005 8:38:05 PM PDT by fatima (Prayer's for our guy Texascowboy.)
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To: NewCenturions
I'm tired of hearing network airheads drone on about this like it's a presidential election. They cannot fathom the spiritual aspects at all.

Same here. Thank God we have a holy and faithful priest who gave a wonderful homily today on the Holy Spirit and the conclave. I was glad my kids heard it. Also, thank God for Mother Angelica's EWTN.

47 posted on 04/17/2005 8:38:36 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: All; Salvation; NYer

Cardinals ready themselves for papal conclave

VATICAN CITY, April 17 (Reuters) - Roman Catholic cardinals started to move into sequestered lodgings on Sunday ahead of a conclave to elect a new pontiff, with no clear favourite in sight to succeed Pope John Paul II.


The 115 cardinals eligible to vote will all stay in a specially-built residence within the Vatican, dining together on Sunday night before entering their momentous, secretive conclave in the Sistine Chapel on Monday afternoon.

Before being shut off from the outside world, some of the red-hatted "princes of the church" held public Masses around a rainswept Rome on Sunday in which they emphasised the spiritual nature of their quest.

"People think that we are going to vote like in an election. But this is something completely different. We are going to listen to the Lord and listen to the Holy Spirit," Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras said in a homily.

None of the cardinals wanted to talk about who might take over the reins of the 1.1 billion-member Church.


We don't know (who will be pope). Nobody can tell at the moment," said Mexican cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera. "I believe the Holy Spirit already knows, but he hasn't told us yet."

In the run-up to the vote, much media speculation has centred on John Paul's closest aide and arch-ideologue Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, suggesting that the German prelate might head initial balloting. Ratzinger also tops betting Web sites.

But many Vatican watchers doubt whether such a figure, whose conservative dogma has polarised the Roman Catholic world, would be able to gain the two-thirds majority needed to become the 264th successor to the first pope, St. Peter.

COMPROMISE

That could leave the field open to a compromise candidate who could bridge the numerous factions that have risen up within the largest religious organisation in the world during John Paul's high-profile 26-year pontificate.

The cardinals will hold up to four ballots a day until they reach the necessary majority.

Of the eight 20th century conclaves, none took longer than five days, and two of them were completed on the second day. It took just eight ballots over three days to choose the relatively unknown Karol Wojtyla of Poland as Pope John Paul in 1978.

The cardinals are due to hold a public Mass on Monday morning in St. Peter's Basilica. At 4:30 p.m. (1430 GMT) they will file into the Sistine Chapel to start their deliberations.

In the build-up to the vote, some 15 cardinals have been promoted in the press as potential popes, including Italians Dionigi Tettamanzi and Angelo Scola, Brazil's Claudio Hummes, Nigeria's Francis Arinze and the Honduran Maradiaga.

Before Wojtyla's election Italy had held the papacy for 455 years. Many Italians hope they will now be able to reclaim it and fear that if they do not they may have lost their privileged position for good.

Among the major issues facing the Church are the growing spiritual poverty of Europe, the material poverty of the third world and the centralised workings of the Vatican bureaucracy.

Critics of John Paul said he focused too much power in the hands of the Vatican and smothered theological debate.

MEDIA MUZZLE

The cardinals themselves have taken an unusual vow of media silence ahead of the conclave, adding to a sense of uncertainty and intrigue within the male-dominated Church hierarchy.

"It's very hard to know what's going on in the church, we feel that it's a different world from where we are," Sister Emanuel, who works in Australia and is on a retreat in Rome, said as she visited John Paul II's tomb in St. Peter's.

The conclave will be like no other election in the world.

There will be no press briefings after the ballots, no spin doctors promoting their candidates, just a simple puff of smoke from the Sistine chimney -- black smoke for an inconclusive vote and white smoke when a new pope is chosen.

In preparation for an eventual decision, Vatican workers have put up red curtains on the balcony of St Peter's where the new pope will make his first appearance to the world.

In the hours leading to Monday's lock-up, leading Catholics made final public appeals to the cardinals about the sort of pope they wanted to see step onto the balcony.

"Dear brothers, choose someone who will guarantee the freedom and openness of the Church," Swiss theologian Hans Kueng, one of the Church's most prominent liberal dissenters, said in an article in La Stampa newspaper.

"People think that we are going to vote like in an election. But this is something completely different. We are going to listen to the Lord and listen to the Holy Spirit," This is why I do write G-D do know person G-D is G-D pray good friend pray Thank you

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/13473fc0-af4d-11d9-bb33-00000e2511c8.html


48 posted on 04/17/2005 8:38:55 PM PDT by anonymoussierra ("Et iube me venire ad te, ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te in saecula saeculorum. Amen."Totus Tuus!!!!)
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To: Lady In Blue

That's OK. We'll be here in the morning. Actually putting the live thread here might be better than on the regular forum. Guess we;ll have to see.


49 posted on 04/17/2005 8:39:11 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: anonymoussierra
**Of the eight 20th century conclaves, none took longer than five days, and two of them were completed on the second day. It took just eight ballots over three days to choose the relatively unknown Karol Wojtyla of Poland as Pope John Paul in 1978.**

It's nice to have the facts to check on the general media. In this case they got it right.

Recent Conclaves - The record of recent Conclaves, the last 100 years, shows that the College elects a new Pope on average on the 3rd day in the afternoon, after about 8 ballots.

Pius X, 1903: 4 days, 7 ballots
Benedict XV, 1914: 3 days, 10 ballots
Pius XI, 1922: 5 days 14 ballots
Pius XII, 1939: 2 days, 3 ballots
John XXIII, 1958: 4 days, 11 ballots
Paul VI, 1963: 3 days, 6 ballots
John Paul I, 1978: 2 days, 4 ballots
John Paul II, 1978: 3 days, 8 ballots


50 posted on 04/17/2005 8:43:03 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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